Norepinephrine euphoria, then anxiety. Why?

[stevesgggg]

I was always under the impression that NE causes anxiety. Whether it was released NE, or NE converted from too much dopamine.
After trial and error at varying dosage of almost all stimulants imaginable, I know for a fact that NE alone causes euphoria (even without dopamine) for an initial 10-15 minutes, then sharply turns into a horrible anxiety.
Anyone knows why and whats happening?
I don't want to block NE or it's receptors with beta blockers or take benzos to stop anxiety, I do those already. I just wanna know the quick mechanism of NE euphoria to anxiety.

[Benson]

Dose response?

[Ex Dubio]

I was always under the impression that NE causes anxiety. Whether it was released NE, or NE converted from too much dopamine.

1. Anxiety is by no means strictly NE-mediated, and NE does not always -- or even often -- cause anxiety. NEergic drugs have antidepressant and anxiolytic properties, though some do also cause anxiety. In short, the issue is much more complex than "NE = anxiety".

2. Released DA does not convert to NE; it all occurs in NE neurons and is not heavily dependent on NEergic drugs.

After trial and error at varying dosage of almost all stimulants imaginable, I know for a fact that NE alone causes euphoria (even without dopamine) for an initial 10-15 minutes, then sharply turns into a horrible anxiety.

If stimulants give you 15 minutes of euphoria followed by anxiety, I can pretty much assure you that you're receiving an initial DAergic effect. That said, something else is afoot, as that is a very odd response.

Anyone knows why and whats happening?
I don't want to block NE or it's receptors with beta blockers or take benzos to stop anxiety, I do those already. I just wanna know the quick mechanism of NE euphoria to anxiety.

It's not going to be as simple as being strictly NE-mediated, and may in fact be a quirk of your own neurophysiology. I also suspect you're ignoring DAergic properties of many NEergic drugs. That said, NE-induced euphoria is not by itself that uncommon, but the short duration is what is odd.

[kassem23]

What stimulants have you tried?

[adreno]

I'm on a NRI and it doesn't increase anxiety, in fact I'll say it improves it. Tyrosine, OTOH, causes me massive anxiety, to the point of panic. So basically I agree with Ex Dubio, your observations on NE are far from universal.

[Chip Douglas]

Do we know through what mechanism(s) NEergic drugs relieve anxiety ?

[jimjoe2009]

I know in some regions of the brain the NE transporter has an affinity for dopamine as well (such as in the nucleus accumbens). As a result NE reuptake inhibitors could certainly stimulate reward. I'm not sure if the same is true for NE releasers. Honestly though it sounds to me like your dose is too high, initial reward, then as whatever drug you're taking continued to absorb, the NE built up to a level to cause anxiety.

[rydra_wong]

Is there some tie between NE and cortisol? Because the DHEA:cortisol ratio governs how much stress you can take and DHEA cures panic for me. In a young person <30 years old, the DHEA:cortisol is supposedly 10:1 (whatever your age, I doubt you have that ratio). Note: the caffeine in 2 cups of coffee raise cortisol 33%, so at som point of low DHEA one can't tolerate coffee.

[Flaw]

One effect of the stimulant caffeine is increased NE while also inhibition on GABA. Inhibition on the GABA could cause the anxiety. I'am not sure if GABA inhibition is common of all stimulants. I experience the same thing in most stimulant cases. There are some days however where I don't experience a anxiety rebound. Those are rare and I wonder why. I do find that taking a stimulant with a balanced meal helps to cut down on some of the symptoms. Many stimulants lower blood sugar levels and can cause hypoglycemia if you don't have adaquate glucose stores. A symptom of hypoglycemia is anxiety. I seem to be effected mood wise the most by caffeine or yohimbe. After the initial short rush, I start to experience low mood, and anxiety with caffeine. With yohimbe I can get headaches, and become very irritable and more physical symptoms. Increased HR and blood pressure which leads to anxiety.

[rydra_wong]

If appropriate for you (based on your age) I would take DHEA. You peak at age 30. Most people don't supplement until age 50. I supplement it. I do not take NE (wouldn't know how?? Like where would you buy such a thing?) But I do take tyrosine and it causes euphoria for me. Unless I run out of iron or zinc. Allergies run me out of zinc...I am finding I need to take about 75mg zinc everytime I have a cold or rhinitis allergy (airway issue) or my thyroid can't function either. But with all that in line including the DHEA, tyrosine causes euphoria due to the dopamine it makes. It requires BH4 to make dopamine out of tyrosine and some people have genetic difficulty making BH4 but you can take that as a pill too or rely on methylfolate and vitamin C to increase BH4 production.

[7foot]

I am glad I found this post.


I get significant euphoria when I dose 25mg of Methylhexanamine/DMAA/1,3-dimethylamylamine and small amount of caffeine (50-75mg or so). I noticed that when my flight or flight response kicks in I get a very warm and pleasurable sensation. I found this out when I had to catch a drink from falling off my desk. Very interesting This has to be a honey-moon phase experience though, I am pretty sure this wouldn't last under circumstances where I took it daily.

[SlimNm]

interesting that ur flight or flight response includes euphoria. sometimes during my lexapro w/d, the same thing happens. VERY amusing personally lol. I got embarassed once on purpose to test it and it felt so good & warm lmao