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  1. #1
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    Default AgeForce Transdermal Patches - Thoughts

    I'm a rep for AgeForce, and though we're not a sponsor here yet, I wanted to see what folks thought about AgeForce products. They're all transdermals and mostly patches.

    Please let me know your thoughts.

    AgeForceŽ HGH Supplements from our USA-FDA certified labs
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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    I think that at 22,000 Da, there is about zero chance of intact HGH passing through the stratum corneum unless you guys have licensed 3M's sMTS microneedle array technology for your patch...I also think that once the FDA gets wind of this product, a cease and desist order will be along shortly thereafter.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Yes, the Molecular Weight of HGH is ~22,000 daltons while typically transdermals will only pass stuff that's <500 daltons through the skin. However, a lot of research and innovation has been focused on passing macro-molecules through the skin, specifically HGH.

    Here are a couple studies from 3M and ViaDor Transpharma.
    TransPharma Medical - Drug Product Portfolio
    https://www.mcssl.com/SYS/netcart/affiliates/AffiliateReports.aspx?sid=u5qcs545agbxfi455kaocber &merchantid=78248

    Phase4 Pharmaceuticals (AgeForce parent company) is also in the pharmaceutical R&D area, and is likewise working to pass macromolecules through the skin. Their approach is proprietary ATM, but I believe is different. I do not have any studies or "proof" like with 3M. However, I've seen some anecdotal evidence that suggest it works. One guy reported his IGF-1 levels were at the top of the range in his blood tests, and for a 40 year old that's really high. Not enough evidence I know, but it's at least supportive.

    As far as I know 25mg Somatroin is used in the patch. Used topically, the hormone is permitted in off-the-shelf creams, serums and patches.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Yes, the Molecular Weight of HGH is ~22,000 daltons while typically transdermals will only pass stuff that's <500 daltons through the skin. However, a lot of research and innovation has been focused on passing macro-molecules through the skin, specifically HGH.

    Here are a couple studies from 3M and ViaDor Transpharma.
    TransPharma Medical - Drug Product Portfolio
    https://www.mcssl.com/SYS/netcart/affiliates/AffiliateReports.aspx?sid=u5qcs545agbxfi455kaocber &merchantid=78248

    Phase4 Pharmaceuticals (AgeForce parent company) is also in the pharmaceutical R&D area, and is likewise working to pass macromolecules through the skin. Their approach is proprietary ATM, but I believe is different. I do not have any studies or "proof" like with 3M. However, I've seen some anecdotal evidence that suggest it works. One guy reported his IGF-1 levels were at the top of the range in his blood tests, and for a 40 year old that's really high. Not enough evidence I know, but it's at least supportive.

    As far as I know 25mg Somatroin is used in the patch. Used topically, the hormone is permitted in off-the-shelf creams, serums and patches.
    Do you have those blood test to post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Do you have those blood test to post?
    No, here's the quote from AM but he didn't post scans...

    I'll chime in here - I'm a 41 yo male who has been using both the testo 100 product and the power patch for about 3 months for testo and 2 months for power patch. I do not notice any effect of either except that I absolutely notce the rock like sleep and lucid dreams on the pp nights. I do not have baseline blood work from before I started using these products but I recently had a full work up including having both test and igf-1 tested for the first time.

    The bad news is that my test levels were below range - 229 on a scale of 249-836 total and 6.3 out of 6.8-21.5 free-so I am now on the HRT path and will be dropping testo 100.

    The good news is that my IGF-1 was very close to the high end of range 256 on a scale of 101-267. I have no idea if this is from the power patch but the doc did say that he never saw anyone of my age with such good igf 1 numbers and low test numbers so I will certainly stick with the power patch product.

    Hope this helps.
    As a side note, we've reformulated the Testo100 patch to now include 6-oxo, stinging nettle extract, and DAA.
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    Senior Member Jakeshorts's Avatar
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    Even if this were giving someone a top range of IGF, I would be curious to hear what you think that means as far as a body building supplement. With sensationalized marketing bullshit and immediate results being demanded by meat heads and dip shits everywhere, I don't think any one if going to consider waiting 4-6 months for 5lbs of lean body mass worth his while.

    If you super dosed (and could show that it worked) so that you could get supraphysiological ranges of IGF this product might be something to begin to consider, but again, HGH isn't necessarily something that reaps instant gratification. Even at BBer doses. Which, I would assume you would need to AT LEAST meet if you want to move the product.

    Just my opinion.
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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Phase4 Pharmaceuticals (AgeForce parent company) is also in the pharmaceutical R&D area, and is likewise working to pass macromolecules through the skin.
    If this is indeed the case and they have developed a method for reliably passing large peptide molecules through the skin, whoever is in charge of their business development plan ought to be dope-smacked...the market for such a system with legitimate pharmaceuticals is massive and to be wasting time and resources peddling "supplement" patches off a website is damned near criminal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    As far as I know 25mg Somatroin is used in the patch. Used topically, the hormone is permitted in off-the-shelf creams, serums and patches.
    Somatropin is an FDA-approved pharmaceutical drug. It cannot, therefore, also be sold as a supplement. The FDA also considers any hormone-containing topical to be a drug, not a supplement.

    This is from a violation letter from the FDA to another company offering a topical HGH product for sale...one that did not, ironically, even contain any HGH.

    Moreover, under 21 CFR 310.530(b), any over-the-counter drug product that is labeled, represented, or promoted as a topically applied hormone-containing product for drug use, such as your firm's Derma-Tropin product, is regarded as a new drug within the meaning of section 201(P) of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 321(P)), and is misbranded under section 502 of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 352) unless an FDA-approved application is effect for it. Therefore, your sale of Derma-Tropin without an approved application renders it misbranded under section 502 of the Act, and the introduction or delivery for introduction into interstate commerce of this misbranded product violates section 301(a) of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 331(a))
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeshorts View Post
    Even if this were giving someone a top range of IGF, I would be curious to hear what you think that means as far as a body building supplement. With sensationalized marketing bullshit and immediate results being demanded by meat heads and dip shits everywhere, I don't think any one if going to consider waiting 4-6 months for 5lbs of lean body mass worth his while.

    If you super dosed (and could show that it worked) so that you could get supraphysiological ranges of IGF this product might be something to begin to consider, but again, HGH isn't necessarily something that reaps instant gratification. Even at BBer doses. Which, I would assume you would need to AT LEAST meet if you want to move the product.

    Just my opinion.
    I wouldn't promote it as something with immediate gains. I think many people look for benefits like improved healing, improved lipids, better immune response, and a boost to recovery and anabolism. Any appreciable difference in anabolism will take 2-3 months to start showing effects. That's the nature of HGH, even meatheads need to know that.

    HGH and IGF do more than just build muscle, and it's not just for meatheads but those looking for general health benefits. At 4-5iu equivalent dose this would provide enough benefits to be of interest to even BBers that don't want to mess with illegal substances.

    I agree some will look for it to be something it's not, but you'll have that with any supplement. Thanks for the perspective though, it helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benson View Post
    If this is indeed the case and they have developed a method for reliably passing large peptide molecules through the skin, whoever is in charge of their business development plan ought to be dope-smacked...the market for such a system with legitimate pharmaceuticals is massive and to be wasting time and resources peddling "supplement" patches off a website is damned near criminal.



    Somatropin is an FDA-approved pharmaceutical drug. It cannot, therefore, also be sold as a supplement. The FDA also considers any hormone-containing topical to be a drug, not a supplement.

    This is from a violation letter from the FDA to another company offering a topical HGH product for sale...one that did not, ironically, even contain any HGH.
    Good points, and thanks for the info on the Somatropin. I'll go back and ask some questions on that and see if I can get some answers. I'm just as concerned about providing something of value (and legal) and I figure I can find out the best information in this role.
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    Product Rep mich29's Avatar
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    it all sounds great but I have the same questions that you guys have already asked.However If this stuff pans out I'd like to see what the patches run along with Need 2 Slin and say superdrol for a nice little cycle idea


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    Please let me know if y'all have more questions, I'm sending these to AgeForce for answers. I'll let you know what I find out.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    And don't get me wrong, if this product was legal and actually worked, I'd be the first one in line to buy it but the pharmacodynamic and legal issues do not appear to have been properly sorted through yet.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Senior Member Jakeshorts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    I wouldn't promote it as something with immediate gains. I think many people look for benefits like improved healing, improved lipids, better immune response, and a boost to recovery and anabolism. Any appreciable difference in anabolism will take 2-3 months to start showing effects. That's the nature of HGH, even meatheads need to know that.

    HGH and IGF do more than just build muscle, and it's not just for meatheads but those looking for general health benefits. At 4-5iu equivalent dose this would provide enough benefits to be of interest to even BBers that don't want to mess with illegal substances.

    I agree some will look for it to be something it's not, but you'll have that with any supplement. Thanks for the perspective though, it helps.
    If and only if you can prove it delivers supraphysiological levels.

    The problem here is that it's an idea, I wouldn't even say it's a great one just yet, and not data. There are benefits to be had.... if you're old and HGH levels are low, but that's not really saying much.

    My advice would be to do some MAJOR research which includes lots and lots of objective data. Otherwise, no one has any reason to believe it does anything.
    Last edited by Jakeshorts; August 17th, 2011 at 11:44 AM.
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    Product Rep mich29's Avatar
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    well said here fellas.I'll be waiting for the answers as well very good points made here.you guys sumed it up so nicely I didn't even have to ask anything


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benson View Post
    And don't get me wrong, if this product was legal and actually worked, I'd be the first one in line to buy it but the pharmacodynamic and legal issues do not appear to have been properly sorted through yet.
    I agree, I'm working on getting the answers. I don't anticipate them being "satisfactory" and more along the lines of "check the logs bro". But, I've got to try!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeshorts View Post
    If and only if you can prove it delivers supraphysiological levels.

    The problem here is that it's an idea, I wouldn't even say it's a great one just yet, and not data. There are benefits to be had.... if you're old and HGH levels are low, but that's not really saying much.

    My advice would be to do some MAJOR research which includes lots and lots of objective data. Otherwise, no one has any reason to believe it does anything.
    Well, there are different demographics and markets. Some people would be interested in boosting HGH levels back to where they were in your 20's. Just look at HRT, pretty sizeable business. Supraphysiological levels would be nice for another demographic, but that can be handled by putting on more patches if you find the basic patch works! LOL!

    The likelyhood of MAJOR research seems unlikely, 3M and Transpharma are the ones doing that. But, again, doesn't hurt to ask!


    Guys, tell me this. If we got a reputable member to do pre/post bloodwork on IGF-1 levels, would that help? PrivateMDLabs does them for ~$60 after discount. I'd do it, but I doubt anyone would believe me.
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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Guys, tell me this. If we got a reputable member to do pre/post bloodwork on IGF-1 levels, would that help? PrivateMDLabs does them for ~$60 after discount. I'd do it, but I doubt anyone would believe me.
    That would go a long way towards convincing me that there was something to this.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





  17. #17
    Senior Member Jakeshorts's Avatar
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    If it's Benson.
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  18. #18
    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeshorts View Post
    If it's Benson.
    I was going to nominate you.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeshorts View Post
    If it's Benson.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benson View Post
    I was going to nominate you.
    How old are you two?
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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    I'm 40
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