Fish oil pills are the devil (EPA reduces t-lymphocyte production)

[dtrain]

Stopped taking fish oil pills. I was taking 4-5 per day, also was sick often and cuts would get infected easily.

EPA buildup appears to kill t-lymphocytes

Fish oil-fed mice have impaired resistance to influenza infection.
Leukocyte numbers and function in subjects eating n-3 enriched foods: selective depression of natural killer cell levels
Dietary n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids promote activation-induced cell death in Th1-polarized murine CD4+ T-cells.
Suppressive mechanisms of EPA on human T cell proliferation.
Dietary supplementation with gamma-linolenic acid or fish oil decreases T lymphocyte proliferation in healthy older humans.
Very long chain n-3 and n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids inhibit proliferation of human T-lymphocytes in vitro.
Oral (n-3) fatty acid supplementation suppresses cytokine production and lymphocyte proliferation: comparison between young and older women.

[Hullcrush]

Well, the title got me to read the thread. Fish oil does not kill lymphocytes, it shifts immune balance. The aforementioned studies would indicate that fish oil has a potent anti-inflammatory and anti-bacterial effect. It really depends on what you are using it for.

[dtrain]

Well, the title got me to read the thread. Fish oil does not kill lymphocytes, it shifts immune balance. The aforementioned studies would
indicate that fish oil has a potent anti-inflammatory and anti-bacterial effect. It really depends on what you are using it for.

In the end, what you're saying is the same thing as the subject title. There are certain diseases where one would want to reduce t-cell count to reduce inflammation such as rheumatoid arthritis, but in general, I'm not sure who wants their t-cell counts reduced.

The antiinflammatory properties of diets rich in n-3 PUFAs on T-cell function have been firmly established in human and animal models (16–18). The primary effector molecules are thought to be eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; 20:5n-3) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA; 22:6n-3). In general, consumption of diets rich in n-3 PUFAs is associated with a reduced proinflammatory T-cell response attributable, in part, to a decreased proliferative capacity resulting from a reduction in IL-2 production and/or function and an increase in T-cell AICD

[dtrain]

Here's another one

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1833105

In conclusion, low doses of fish oil may have a mild immunosuppressive effect affecting both T and B cell functions. These observations stress the need for more extensive trials designed to determine whether immunosuppressive effects can be consistently elicited and for studies aimed at determining the mechanisms by which omega-3 fatty acids affect the immune system.

[dtrain]

^^^ There are many different omega-3 FA's and the eicosapentaenoic acid appears to be the one that disables the t-lymphocytes. The rest of the omega-3's seem to have beneficial effects as your studies show.

[mattrag]

Very interesting, and yes looking at competitive studies and searching out results that aren't in line with what you found is always a good way to truly test the hypothesis.

[dtrain]

Very interesting, and yes looking at competitive studies and searching out results that aren't in line with what you found is always a good way to truly test the hypothesis.

Of course. As soon as I find some studies that show EPA upregulating t-cell production, I'll post them right up. Not just posting anti-fish oil articles, posting up anything EPA and t cell related. Couple studies for now, I'll look through more pubmed search pages later.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21440312

This study goes more in depth. Regulatory t-cells downregulate t-cell production, FYI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_T_cell

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21182821
J Surg Res. 2012 Mar;173(1):161-70. Epub 2010 Sep 27.

Eicosapentaenoic acid disrupts the balance between Tregs and IL-17+ T cells through PPARγ nuclear receptor activation and protects cardiac allografts.

Ye P, Li J, Wang S, Xie A, Sun W, Xia J.

Source

Department of Cardiovascular Surgery, Union Hospital, Tongji Medical College, Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Wuhan, China.


Abstract

Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) is one of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids that possesses a wide array of anti-inflammatory effects but its effects, on transplantation in general and on Tregs and IL-17(+) T cells in particular, are not well studied. We treated recipient mice of heart transplantation with EPA and examined the effect of EPA on the ratio of Tregs/IL-17(+) T cells in an allogeneic heart transplant model. The hearts from BALB/c (H-2d) mice were transplanted into C57BL/6 (H-2b) mice, and the recipients were administered EPA (500 mg/kg/d, 250 mg/kg/d, or 100 mg/kg/d) from d 1 to 3 post-transplant. The survival of cardiac allografts in mice treated with EPA was significantly protracted. Further examination of donor hearts in EPA-treated group demonstrated that infiltrating Foxp3(+) T cells were increased, IL-17(+) T cells were decreased, and expression of PPARγ was up-regulated. In mixed lymphocytes reaction (MLR), incubation with EPA significantly inhibited the proliferation of IL-17(+) T cells and promoted the proliferation of Tregs, while PPARγ antagonists GW9662 could reverse the results. Our study demonstrated that EPA can effectively protect cardiac allografts and disrupt the balance between Tregs and IL-17(+) T cells in a murine model. This effect is partially mediated by PPARγ nuclear receptor activation.

[The Bionic Man]

I think for every product out there, good or bad, you'll always find positve and negative studies and positive and negative effects.
Everything in moderation I guess!

FWIW, I've tried various different fish oil (and other EFA products) for years, with nothing special as far as results (I know it's more of a general health supp), but I recently started taking Wild Salmon oil (from one particular hippie-ish food store) and I love them!

[MassiveBloke]

As was mentioned fish oil is an anti- inflammatory, the majority of the U.S population are inflamed plain and simple. There is now a way to measure inflammation and that is the ratio of
1eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA):3Arachidonic acid(AA). It is very difficult to get that balance in today’s western diet. The ultimate killer being refined vegetable oils and saturated fats; sky rockets our AA side of the scale causing inflammation. AA is consumed in omega 6 rich foods, margarine, mayo, cheese, biscuits, tuna in oil, all take out foods in abundance, vegetable oils.. the list goes on. How much EPA are we really getting? Not that much. Not enough to bring the EPA:AA scale to turn the other way unless we are cavemen. We need a little AA (inflammation) to start the healing process, but not that much.

Our bodies are constantly inflamed and stressed from training. Fish oils are needed to reduce that inflammation, along with a highly nutritious diet.

[googlealchemist]

FWIW I have been taking a temporary high dose of fishoil 20-30g/day for approx two months or so now. Also taking one 240mg softgel of borage oil based gla. I've been around sick people and never 'caught' anything. I am currently in close, very frequent contact with one person with some sort of flu or bug...sore throat, generally feeling like crap etc...who gave it to her husband readily enough. I've been breating in tons of germs and I feel perfect.

In all fairness, perhaps the rest of my regimen more than makes up for any detrimental effects on immunity by the fish oil that the studies are noting.

I also know high dose FO is argued either way, not to get off the main subject...it's just an experiment which I intend to drop back substantially here soon.

Just my $2 of real world experience to compliment the studies.

[jhferry]

I heard it was such an anti inflammatory that it can make your nuts shrink.

[HaiUGise]

It's almost as evil as soy, boy?

[metalhead0]

I did see a bottle of DHA-only fish oil at the store the other day.

[mwarren]

I thought this was old news and already hashed out 4 years ago. We need to achieve an O:3 balance. Seems pretty simple to me. OH NOZ I TOOK FISH OILS AND GOT TEH AIDS

[DeniseXan]

Fish oil can not give you AIDS.

[mwarren]

No duh.

[HaiUGise]

Fish oil can not give you AIDS.

Wait, fish oil is made from gay fish?

[mwarren]

Yes, the oils are also used as lubricant in the wild.

[rydra_wong]

I regularly take 9g/day omega-3 during allergy season to tame allergic rhinitis. This is taught by Dr. Barry Sears, PhD in lipid science, the Zone doctor. He says that omega-3 and omega-6 are digested by the SAME enzymes. Thus, if you use up those enzymes taking 9g/day of omega-3, then you will not have any left to digest the o:6 fats and make inflammatory cytokines. So whoever above is taking more than 9g is doing overkill...you use oup all the inflammatory-producing enzymes at 9g/day. I only do this during allergy season because it's enough fat to make you feel like you ate the Empire State building. And, in fact, O-3 is known to cut food cravings. Also, if I take 9g o-3 and it is not during hayfever season, it makes my brain glow like it's been rubbed with Vicks-Vaporub...it is a wonderful feeling!

I have not caught any illnesses during o-3 supplementation at a 9g/day dose. I do take olive leaf extract and garlic pills, both of which kill pathogens. There is more than one way to stay healthy.

Rydra

[phyreflame]

Prove it