So can we have a bit on the upcoming 1-AD?

I wouldn't expect Ergo to release the name of the compound as doing so obviously invites copycats.But a word along the lines of those who are prone to/have gyno or MPB as to wether or not 1-AD will be inherently problematic would be appreciated.

Better not be some dhea bullshit or something like superdrol ng. I expect better from PA.

Is DHEA-NG ok with you ersatz?

it is a 1-test precursor.

it is exceptionally hard to manufacture and i have been working very hard almost every day for several months trying to get a good procedure down. i am going to either lose my mind or figure it out

I got $5 on 'Lose Mind'

First I've heard of this. Definitely hoping it works out! The industry needs it's 1-test back. Will it have any potential in a transdermal?

Word. This is some of the best news I have heard all week.

Try different solvents and temperatures

Hey Pat ... any updates on progress? Lost your mind yet!?

I wonder how this is progressing as well. Additionally, I always assumed if you could question your sanity it must surely indicate you retain some degree of it.

today i feel like i am losing my mind for sure.

we should have something at least for limited sale by end of may

Party on, Garth.

i got what seemed like a very cool result in my lab on friday. pray that it is reproducible when i get back on monday

Are you still working on ways to bring the price down? Is this new result related to that or completely different?

its related to that.

i can't seem to duplicate the results of the reaction i did on friday though. fucking typical

Dont get discouraged...we are all ready for some good stuff from you

OK i got the process fine tuned pretty well and we are starting production. we should make the spring deadline. i am stoked

Hey Pat, you should make that stanolone precursor that's part of 3AD like you mentioned and sell it through Giant...

androsterone? Why?

don't fall for the hype, its a pretty crappy prohormone. its actually a precursor to the 3alpha stuff Llewellyn used to sell, and that stuff was so / so

it will convert quite readily to androsterone sulfate and androsterone glucuronide and be excreted in the urine

2-androstenol acetate OTOH is a possibility

i am too busy making 1-ad now. 1-ad will be king, again

Yeah, this is what I meant; sorry. You had mentioned it in a thread over at bb.com I believe...

I can't wait

SWEET! I wasnt able to enjoy the original but I am ready to try the 2nd edition! Pat, any way we might be some of the first to be able to order some of the new stuff?

PA said "New 1-AD" is very similar to old 1-AD, so probably de sides are the same.

+1 ^^ =) be good for the boards if all the first logs where done on mindandmuscle.net.. better sales over at bb.com though =/

yeah I was thinking why they added plain androsterone

wouldn't 1-androsterone have better conversion rate though and been a better addition or it equally sucks?

Will the initial release be on the giant website or another site?

the bottled product called 1-androsterone is something i have tested three times over the past year and a half. the first time caps were just dhea. the second time it was 50% of the target compound, and 50% DHEA. The last lot was 10% target compound and 90% DHEA

The target compound, if delivered in the proper amounts, should be a very good product. You will all see the 3rd week of June or so

So this is the active in 1-AD?

it is

i have an uphill battle ahead of me because the same chemical has been on the market already for a year and half or so. the problem is, the bottles have all been crap. i have been testing them all along.

i will be up against people that tried the other product and got nothing from it. they will say that my stuff must suck too.

I will also be accused of being unoriginal. Well thats fine but i had been working on this since well before i got indicted. I had to stop working on it until relatively recently. So i certainly am not a copy cat.

I also am in a personal dilemna because the company that has been marketing this stuff for the last year and a half is run by two of my former salesman. We are gonna have to bust them out, we have no choice. But its gonna hurt them bad when we do, and we dunno what that is gonna do to our relationship with these guys.

That is a shitty situation.
I was gonna ask you about that. I thought I remembered you saying you were close to AMS in some way.

Either way, I don't see this being much of a problem for your sales in the long run. I mean, you're the one most online consumers(bb.com) trust to test/confirm the major otc hormones right now. People will buy it. And if it works like you expect it to, I'm sure that'll clear up most of this.

Respectfully, Patrick, I think you underestimate the value of your good name in this industry.

Just repeat, in an ad, the gist of what you wrote above.

Are there any plan to release a revamped 4-Diol using 4-Androsterone then?

i could make that stuff at a decent price. But i don't think it would be a very good compound unless taken at a high dose with an aromatase inhibitor.

4-androsterone (actually 4-dhea) converts very efficiently to 4-androstenedione. As you all know, 4-adione has poor conversion (except at doses over a gram a day or so) and aromatizes easily.

1-DHEA however converts very efficiently to 1-androstenedione, and 1-androstenedione is a very effective compound. 1-adione was my first version of 1-AD, and many swore it was better than even the 1-diol version.

If you could find some way to do this more effectively it would be much appreciated. The problem with 1-AD is that it's a great anabolic, but it also effectively neuters you for the duration. Remember those old nordiol+4-diol tabs you and Scott Connelly used to market? That solved the problem admirably. If you could do the same with 1-AD, we all would be happy. And peace and joy would spread across the land.

remarkably enough, the 3alpha isomer of 4-ad is not on the list. however it is very difficult to make, especially without 3beta contamination

What would you suggest to take with your 1-ad prod or are you going to include a agent to offset libido loss, and is your 1-ad prod going to be a more effective hormone then the current available prod on the market?

Did you not read the thread, man?



PA -- When finalized, do you plan on releasing test results showing the % target compound of your product?

Yeah smartass but if the new agent is directly on line with the old one then libido loss still could be a problem and i need mine.

Is it better to be a jackass rather than a smart ass?

The latter doesn't infer the former? Either case it's better than being an ignoranus.


So, it turns out to be what most expected. If the libido suppression cannot be tolerated there are other alternatives with their own set of "sides".

I know i used all of the first gen 1-ad prods and would like to use again, and i know there are other prods to offset the libido loss but to what extent. I prob would not use as a standalone.

I dunno what is on the market right now that can really take the place of the old 4-ad in this regard (complimentary prohormone with 1-ad)

how would i measure such a thing?

maybe 11-oxo could help offset

maybe not

dunno till ya try

Just say 75%.

yeah i am using 11oxo right now and it is ext effective in the libido dept as well as the other positive things it does.

My response was in reference to this portion of your inquiry, nothing to do with libido:





Well I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass, at least.



The same way you used to measure these?

maybe i misunderstood you. i thought you were asking for % conversion to 1-test

are you asking for test results showing our caps contain 100mg of the active compound? thats not a problem

just so you know, our finished product will contain about 10% or so epiandrosterone as a side product. we adjust the amount per cap that we put in up however so that 100mg of 1-dhea is in each

Yeah, that's what I meant to ask. Sorry for the ambiguity.

EDIT: And good answer -- just what I wanted to hear.