riseboi dives skin deep into Primordial Performance's Dermatherm

I will be approaching this log differently than my previous two logs. Since this is unsponsored, I will post updates in a KISS style (Keep It Short & Simple). I guess you could say I'm shedding the fat (yes, pun intended). That is correct; no videos, quotes, or songs on his log. Anyways, there's too many copy cats out there. Most of the detail of this log intro will be centered around the product description since I believe Primordial Performance has had little exposure on this forum. Other than that, my “before” pics will be the only other pertinent addition to this intro. As far as additional supplements I will continue with the usual stuff, and may be discontinue a few things; none of which I believe will have any pertinent effects on this log. However, since an increase in hunger has been noted by others who have used Dermatherm, I will probably use Applied Nutriceutical's Lipotrophin AM/PM to mitigate any issues with hunger. As I have never used them before, I will try and comment on their effectiveness if taken, but the primary focus of this log will remain on the effectiveness of DermaTherm. I will begin the log without the use of Lipotrophin AM/PM and add them as needed. Also, I believe my diet and workouts to be sound and you can find more details on them in my previous logs.



Lastly, I will state that I have always been a bit leery of topical fat loss products, however, the products from Primordial Performance caught my eye, and the few reviews I did read about there products were favorable. With that said, I will approach this with an open mind. I'm already pretty lean, so I'm not expecting miracles, but because of the fact that I'm already pretty lean, I think I will be able to objectively note any favorable effects. Since the product descriptionis pretty long, I will end here, and add on any pertinent info in my updates.



The following description is from their website. Due to forum rules I don't think I can list their website. For those interested, google is your friend.



Product Overview

DermaTherm is a new revolutionary topical fat loss product. This is the first topical fat loss product on the market designed to burn fat over the entire body, rather than targeting a specific area. Dermatherm is free of any diuretics or stimulants which would only produce a “quick fix”. Instead, our formula creates a real thermogenic effect by increasing body heat and energy expenditure for powerful and noticeable fat loss.

Dermatherm is not only an effective fat loss formula, but an exciting and pervasive experience for the user. Immediately upon application, you will smell the pleasant aroma of the natural aromatics. Within minutes of application, you will feel the warm tingle sensation as the natural extracts pass through the skin. You will actually feel the incandescence take over the entire body as the active ingredients initiate a thermogenic response. Within days, your body will radiate with heat from the inside out as the metabolism ignites oxidation of stubborn fat tissue.

• DermaTherm is positively correlated to dramatically reduce fat mass while preserving muscle mass. By having thermogenic and anti-catabolic properties, Dermatherm will increase your metabolism and calorie burning without sacrificing strength and muscle.
  
• DermaTherm was created with natural flavonoids, alkaloids and hormones to create a powerful yet safe effect on thermogenesis. We created Dermatherm without any stimulants to avoid the typical jitters, anxiety, and sleeplessness asscoated with most fat loss products.
  
• By delivering the ingredients through the skin, and using our highly efficient OHV technology, the active ingredients become immediately bioavailable and timed released for even delivery throughout the day.
  
• For best results, use DermaTherm everyday for at least 4 weeks. For maximum fat loss, use DermaTherm along with a low calorie diet and exercise program.

Thermogenic Boost


DermaTherm is positively correlated to dramatically reduce fat mass while preserving muscle mass. By having both thermogenic and anti-catabolic properties, Dermatherm will increase your metabolism and calorie burning without sacrificing strength and muscle.

Metabolic Optimization - Insulin sensitivity – fat loss

Improving insulin sensitivity and blood sugar levels is a vital part of preventing obesity and maintaining overall health. Two ingredients in DermaTherm are known to be powerful insulin sensitizers – Trans-cinnamaldehyde and evodiamine. Trans-cinnamaldehyde increases insulin sensitivity by inhibiting Protein Tyrosine Phosphatase (PTP1B) and increasing trans-phosphorylation of the insulin receptor, which magnifies the action of insulin, thus requiring a lower amount to control blood sugar. The combination of improving insulin sensitivity, lowering blood sugar, and inhibiting PTP1B, also improves leptin sensitivity. Improving the sensitivity of leptin allows for further improvements in energy management and appetite control, all while fighting the odds of becoming obese.

However, the main benefit of trans-cinnamaldehyde and evodiamine is their ability to increase energy and heat dissipation by acting as a powerful vasodilators. A study with animals who were given evodiamine with a high calorie diet burned significantly more fat mass than the control group. The evodiamine group also had double the lipolytic (fat burning) activity in fat tissue and improved cholesterol values. These benefits were accomplished without any toxic effects. Since we were set on releasing one of the most thermogenic formulas on the market we found three more thermogenic compounds which acted synergistically to create the most unique formula on the market.


Maximimum Themogenesis - energy induction & calorie consumption

Most of you who understand the metabolic process of fat loss realize that thyroid hormones such as T4 and T3 plan an important role in oxygen consumption and energy metabolism. Anyone interested in becoming truly lean must maintain high levels of these thyroid hormones. DermaTherm accomplishes this by including Kaempferol, a natural flavonol with the ability to increase T3 production. Kaempferol effectively up regulates the cellular 2 iodothyronine deiodinase (D2) enzyme and increases the conversion of T4 > T3. In fact, by increasing the enzyme activity and half-life of D2, Kaempferol can increase T3 production as much as 260% (even after kaempferol is excreted from the system!). Other metabolic pathways are also positively influenced by kaempferol, such as the peroxisome proliferator–activated receptor, carnitine palmitoyl transferase-1, mitochondrial transcription factor 1, and uncoupling protein-3.17

Thermogenesis is further intensified by the hormone 7-keto DHEA. This hormone is a true thermogenic monster which increases oxidation (calorie burning) by increasing glycerol-3-phosphate, mitochondrial malic enzyme activity in the liver, and by mimicking thyroid hormone (T4/T3) and increasing protein uncoupling and proton leak across the mitochondrial membrane. A study with men and women on a calorie restricted diet showed that 8 weeks of 7-keto DHEA supplementation tripled the rate of fat loss compared to a placebo group. These results have been confirmed by other human and animal trials, with no adverse effects seen from 7-keto DHEA supplementation.

The synergistic effect from these powerful thermogenics will dramatically ramp up oxygen consumption and heat production. The fat loss is further synergized by enhancing the availability of fat to the cell powerhouse – the mitochondria. DermaTherm accomplishes this by including raspberry ketone, which increases activity of hormone sensitive lipase which is the hormone that breaks down fat to enhance lypolysis (fat burning). This way you know you are making your body fat readily available for rapid fat loss.


Preserving Muscle - Cortisol control

A significant “side benefit” to the potent dose of 7-keto DHEA in DermaTherm is its ability to antagonize the nasty catabolic effect of cortisol. Cortisol is a glucocorticoid which breaks down muscle mass for glucose (energy) when calorie consumption is low. This is a reason why many individuals become “skinny fat” after losing considerable weight from dieting. A reduction in calories causes a spike in cortisol and a rapid breakdown of muscle mass (instead of fat mass). 7-keto DHEA prevents this muscle breakdown by blocking cortisol, and allowing fat to be burned for energy instead. Preserving muscle and targeting fat loss is the key to obtaining that toned and lean physique that seems impossible to find.

Additionally, cortisol can also degrade and impair your immune system, but again, 7-keto DHEA can help prevent this. Protecting your immune system is a vital part of warding off sickness during hardcore dieting and staying on the track to success.



Proprietary blend

Evodiamine

Evodiamine is a quinozol alkaloid extracted from the Evodia fruit. It shares similarity with capsaicin (hot pepper extract) by acting upon the same vanillioid receptor, and activating the sensory nerves, but without the same irritating pungency. By activating the sensory nerves, evodiamine increases energy and heat production. This also creates a vasodilatory effect which increases blood flow and heat dissipation making evodiamine a powerful thermogenic. Animals studies have shown evodiamine to be a potent fat loss compound. More recently, evodiamine has been under intense research for its inhibitory effects on prostate and cervical cancer.

7-Keto DHEA

7-keto DHEA is a hormone and metabolite of DHEA, but without any androgenic or estrogenic effects. 7 7-keto DHEA serves to enhance immune system function by countering the immuno-suppressive effects of cortisol, but it also acts as a powerful thermogenic. 7-keto DHEA increases oxidation (calorie burning) by increasing glycerol-3-phosphate and mitochondrial malic enzyme activity. There is also evidence that 7-keto DHEA increases thermogenesis by mimicking thyroid hormone (T4/T3) and increasing uncoupling proteins and proton leak across the mitochondrial membrane. 7-keto DHEA has been well researched for its fat loss effects in animals & humans and has proven to be both safe and effective.

Kaempferol

Keampferol is a flavonol which positively modulates metabolic pathways within human skeletal muscle. Treatment with kaempferol can increase myocyte oxygen consumption in muscle as much as 30% by increasing cAMP generation and protein kinase A. More specifically, kaempferol up regulates the cellular 2 iodothyronine deiodinase (D2) activity and causes a dramatic increase in the rate of T3 production. When compared to other similar flavonoids such as quercetin and fisetin, kaempferol was the most powerful inducer of D2 activity. As a light weight polyphenolic molecule, keampferol readily absorbs through the skin.

Raspberry Ketone

Raspberry ketone is a small aromatic molecule extracted from raspberries, which is known to give raspberries their pleasant smell. Raspberry ketone is also known to have powerful fat burning ability in both white and brown adipose tissue by increasing fat utilization within the mitochondria. This effect is created by increasing transport of hormone-sensitive lipase in to the cell, which increases norepinephrine induced fat burning.

Trans-Cinnamaldehyde

Trans-cinnamaldehyde is a natural oil extracted from the bark of cinnamon which shares many of the same properties as whole cinnamon. Trans-cinnamaldehyde has been used to treat high blood pressure, digestive disorders, and has even been researched for use in inhibiting growth of tumors and cancer cells. We included trans-cinnemaldehyde for it's powerful vasodilatory and insulin sensitizing effects.



Absorption by the skin

Like our other topical based products, DermaTherm utilizes our exclusive OHV based delivery system, but with one modification. Dermatherm is enhanced with two extreme vasodilatory compounds known as trans-cinnamaldehyde and evodiamine. These natural extracts rapidly dilate the blood capillaries at the skins surface. The heat created by these powerful vasodilators helps create a kinetic force which actively moves the ingredients across the skin and into the blood steam. With trans-cinnamaldehyde and evodiamine acting as both a metabolic booster, and an active carrier, we have created a unique synergy for topical based fat loss.

Another ingredient in Dermatherm, which has minimal activity as an oral supplement, is 7-keto DHEA. Using this compound in an topical delivery system dramatically increases its bioavailability and thermogenic potential. The skin creates the perfect timed release depot for 7-keto so levels are kept high all day long, after just one application. What's even more exciting is that 7-keto is the precursor to an even more thermogenic fat burning hormone known as 7-beta DHEA. When 7-keto passes the skin, much of it interacts with the hormonal enzyme CYP11B1, which rapidly converts the 7-keto to 7-beta DHEA.

We separate DermaTherm from the competition by coupling the most advanced topical formula on the market with the highest potency pharmaceutical grade ingredients.



Dosage & Application

Administer 8 sprays or 1 pump* per 20lb of bodyweight and apply the illustrated application site. The application figure to the right shows the number of pumps applied to a 220lb user.

For example:

- A 220lb user would apply 88 sprays or 11 pumps for one application. For this person, a bottle of DermaTherm would last about 14 days.

Or

- A 120lb user would apply 48 sprays or 6 pumps for one application. For this person, a bottle would last 25 days.

*For user convenience, DermaTherm is included with two different “pumps” for application. We highly recommend the lotion style pump for the easiest application.

If using the trigger sprayer – Spray dose into hand and rub thoroughly onto the body over the illustrated application area. If trigger sprayer clogs, put tip under warm running water.

If using the lotion pump – Pump dose into hand and thoroughly rub into the body over the illustrated application area. We recommend this pump for fastest application. During travel, it is best to cap the product with the original cap shipped with the product. Also, use this cap if storing product for longer than a month.

Only apply the product to clean, dry skin. Shower and exfoliate skin with body-scrubber to remove dead skin cells and optimize absorption. When applying the product, spread across skin quickly to cover as much surface area as possible before product dries. Shaving off body hair is recommended, but not required. However be careful to avoid razor burn as this could be irritated by the DermaTherm. Also, avoid swimming or bathing for at least 6 hours after application.

Note: Immediately after application, DermaTherm may leave the skin warm, red or slightly itchy for approximately 1-2 hours. This is normal, but should not be painful, or persistent for anymore than 3-4 hours. Spot test a small area of skin to assess tolerance. DO NOT USE PRODUCT IF SKIN BECOMES DRY, FLAKY OR PAINFULLY IRRITATED.

For best results, use DermaTherm everyday for at least 4 weeks. For maximum fat loss, use DermaTherm along with a low calorie diet and exercise program. It is best to stack DermaTherm with an appetite suppressant or “energy” supplement to help control appetite and to provide additional energy while on a calorie deficient diet.

Remember, DermaTherm will increase body temperature which may cause an increase in water retention. Don’t be alarmed if your bodyweight increases 1-2 lbs the first week or two. Also, DermaTherm will have an anti-catabolic effect which will prevent muscle loss, so significant reductions in total weight loss are unlikely when using this product. For this reason, it is important to watch the bodyfat % rather than scale wieght to get an accurate reading of results. (allow 3-4 days for excess water weight to be expelled after discontinuing DermaTherm)

Caution: The DermaTherm topical formula contains ingredients that temporarily increase photosensitivity (3-4hr) and increase chance of sunburn. Therefore, caution is advised for those applying the product immediately before direct UV exposure. Also, be sure to wash hands after application and AVOID product contact with eye’s, mouth and genitals.

DAY 1

Used a washcloth to exfoliate my skin a bit this morning during my shower. As soon as I was dry I gave the bottle a good shake and applied 8 pumps of lotion to my body. To try and evenly spread the product I used 1 pump on each lower leg, 1 on each upper leg, 1 pump on each arm, 1 on my abs and on my lower back (as far as I could reach) and 1 on my chest and shoulders.

The cinnamon like scent was very noticeable and kind of cool. Felt a bit of warmth from application. It has subsided during the past 10-15 sitting here at my computer. Right now, I sort of feel like a big piece of Big Red chewing gum.

DAY 2

Same application as before. Same feelings, though I do feel more of a slight stinging feeling on my chest and shoulders. Nothing to cringe about, but noticeable. I have some errands to run today so I'm gonna try and pick up one of those "loofas". tomorrow, I may hop in the steam room first before jumping into the shower.

DAY 3

Same application, but I stepped into the steam room for about 15 minutes before showering. Same feeling but the sting on my shoulder and chest was more pronounced. I had been in the sun a good bit before starting so i would imagine it's probably from that. Hunger pangs were also more pronounced yesterday as well.

DAY 4

Same application as before; no steam room though. Shoulder and chest didn't sting too much today and I did notice some sort of solid balls that formed. Not sure if it was the product that just dried up or some dry skin that peeled off.

Primordial Performance also saw my log another forum and offered to send another bottle to extend the log an additional two weeks. I agreed, so this log will now be 4 weeks long.

DAY 5 & 6

Same application the past two days. I forgot my washcloth yesterday, but I did hop in the steamroom for a bit. Tomorrow or the day after I will note some observations for the past week, weigh myself, etc. I will do this for the continuation of this log every week. I will also only update this log every couple of days since the effects probably won't be noticed from day to day. However, it they're are any noteworthy reasons, I will post them.

As a side note, I rec'd the other bottle of DT from PP. He was also kind enough to include a bottle of his new energy, thermogenic, appetite suppresant. It's called Tea-3. I don't know if PP wants any of the ingredient profile shared at this time so I'll hold off on it unless he says its ok. Since hunger has notably increased, I will probably begin using it tomorrow.

I'll be curious to see how you respond to PP's product. I'm testing Napalm right now but depending on the results may consider this down the road if it's any good. The price seems a little steep for the number of bottles I'd have to use though.
Good luck and as always, great log, even if it is a watered down version of your normal logs, it's still one of the better ones out there.

Jon, they're different products for different purposes. Napalm = Cosmetic. DermaTherma = Systemic.

Yes, good way to put it. We don’t market DermaTherm as a spot specific fat burner… in fact it may even temporarily reduce your definition since it makes you hold extra water while your on it.

It is nice to see the newly sculpted physique once you come off though.

-Pp

I was just reading around on this and re-read riseboi's post. This is applied over your WHOLE body? I see what you and Odium are getting at. Well, this intrigues me even more. I'm liking Napalm, but would still like to have something for an overall leaning up effect. Stimulants mess with me to much, aside from PPA.
Good luck riseboi.

DAY 7

Same application. Also used 2 caps of Tea-3 preWO. Let me preface my thoughts by first saying that I have not used any type of caffeine or NO supp for the past week. I have also lowered my caloric intake slightly this week. Due to this, my workouts this week have been very lackluster and not up to my usual standards of "balls to the wall". My workouts have tried to emphasize cardio, but again, it's been sort of half-assed and my training has mainly been a hodge podge of various movements with no particular purpose. I developed some bursitis/tendonitis in my joints so I'm just trying to take it easy for the next month, but also try and incorporate more cardio. After taking the Tea-3, I was more alert this morning and had more energy. I wasn't" off my rocker" but the amount of energy was definitely more than the past few days. Hunger is never a problem during workouts so I'll comment on this after a few days.

NOTES & IMPRESSIONS AFTER @ 1 WEEK.

- IMO, a pleasing cinnamon smell
- No noticeable staining on skin or on clothing.
- A slightly shiny sheen to my skin. I think it makes me 'look' a bit tanner.
- Slight noticeable body warmth immediately after application; subsides relatively quickly
- Increased hunger.
- weight before was @186; weight this morning was just above 184. This 2 lb difference could easily be water weight as I adjusted my diet by replacing some of the carbs. On the other hand, as PP mentioned, I may be carrying more water due to the product and I'm also supping with @ 5-10 g of creatine mono since I cut out my usual stim/cee/NO supp.

Right now, it's still way to early to make any judgements but I think things are looking promising.

With that said, I decided to put this up today because I'll probably cheat a bit this weekend.

DAY 8, 9 & 10

Same application the past few days. Same initial feelings continue from immediate application. Regarding the Tea-3, appetite suppression has been notable. Last Friday, I almost missed my scheduled dinner time due to it. Also, Saturday was a mega cheat day and I felt bloated all day. Back to normal yesterday and appetite supression continued with the Tea-3. Energy has been okay; nothing overwhelming. I have been dosing at 2 caps per serving and will probablly experiment with just one per serving to experiment.

DAY 11 & 12

Same Dosing. No other feelings, changes, etc. other than those previously experienced.

As a sidenote, I got into NYC earlier today, so I went ahead and weighed myself. I'm a bit surprised that I'm just a little over 186; my initial starting weight. Other that my smörgåsbord on Saturday diet has been good. I'm hoping this is just added waterweight from the product. Also, my diet the next 5-6 days will probably not be "perfect" but I still plan on working out.

DAY 13 & 14

Normal application past few days. Nothing new to report. As expected, my diet has been less than optimal being in NYC but I am still working out and walking alot.

DAY 15 & 16

Same application. Burn on chest and shoulders were a bit more noticeable the past too days. Not exactly sure why its just the chest and shoulders. Again, diet has not been great, but return to Miami tomorrow so hopefully it's get back on schedule Tuesday. Also finished the first bottle and will begin with the new one tomorrow.

DAY 17 & 18

Same applications as before, but yesterday's application burned like a mofo!! :eek: I felt it all over but especially on my legs (behind my knees), on my biceps, and still on my chest & shoulders. It subsided after a few minutes but it sure did catch me off guard. This morning's application wasn't as bad but still burned a bit.

Do you have any feelings about its efficacy yet? How would you compare this with previously used cutters? If you don't mind me asking, what have you used on the way down to your current very low bf%?

Despite that fact that I spent the past few days off diet, I think this stuff actually works. Prior to going out of town, my diet remained relatively the same except for taking out the oats in my pre-bed shake, and my cardio has been almost non-existant due to a nagging knee injury. Also, the notable increase in hunger leads me to believe that the thermogenic aspect is valid. I haven't weighed myself in a while but I'd wager to say that I'm still around or slightly above my starting weight.

As far as other topicals, the only other product I've sued before was Giant's Liposolv. I didn't really notice anything from it.

I've also used Thyrotabs before and I did like them as well. Other than that, I've used a multitude of other caff/stim-based products.

In regards to what got me to my current bf level, a bland and strict diet would me the main reason.

DAY 19

Same application. Slight tingle and burn on chest, shoulders, an biceps but nothing bad.

I also reluctantly stepped on the scale to see how mush "damage" I did while in NYC. I was 185.5. I am pretty happy with this considering I ate alot of carbs, cookies, rice krispy treats, and a heft amount of wine.

DAY 20 & 21

Same applications the past few days.

WEEK 3 OBSERVATIONS:

Weighed myself this morning and came up at just under 184. This is just a little under my WEEK 1 weighing. Appetite has been controllable thanks to the TEA-3. Looking in the mirror this morning at the gym, I don't have the typical vascular look that I"m sort of accustomed too. I'm still lean and all, but this could be due to the extra water I'm holding. It could also be due to the fact that I haven't been using any type of NO product lately. Diet has been on point, but cardio has been pathetic and virtually non-existent. For the purposes of this log, I guess that's a good thing since it'll help me decipher how well this product works.

How many days do you have left?

-Pp

Judging my the length of the first bottle, I'd guess another 8-9 days.

DAY 22 & 23

Same application past two days. Nothing new to report wrt DT. I also used my last serving of Tea-3 yesterday morning. Appetite was definitely increased by late afternoon. I so wanted to cheat but managed to hold off. I had a pretty intense workout yesterday morning so that probably contributed to the increased hunger as well. Today, I used some Zappetite to suppress the hunger pangs.

DAY 24,25,26 & 27

Sorry for the late update. School started again and some other things came up. Applications have remained the same and hunger has been suppressed with Zappetite. Diet has been good except for Monday when I had some pizza and beer. Also, with school conflicting with some of my usual meal times, I used a MRP shake a couple of times. Tomorrow will be the end of the 4th week so I'll weigh myself tomorrow and judging by the remaining liquid in the bottle, I'll have another 2-3 days left of product. After that, I'll continue with the diet and allow for the remaining product in my system to exit so that I can hopefully drop any water weight I'm holding.

DAY 28

Normal application of product.

WEEK 4 OBSERVATIONS

Weight was just a bit over 181. From last week, I'm 3lbs. down from 184 and 5 lbs. down from the start of this log. Keep in mind my week 3 weighing was just shortly after my NYC binge. Diet has been good except where noted previously, and cardio is still "pathetic" by my standards. Hunger hasn't really been an issue , thanks to the Zappetite, but I have gotten the occassional craving for some sweets.

DAY 29 & 30

Same applications as usual. I think I probably have enough for just one more application. After that, I'll wait a few days to post my final review so that I can drop any water weight I may be holding. I'll weigh myself then.

Thanks for this log, I'm very interested in the results. I'm interested in getting to your "before" pictures, lol. My diet is strong and I can lose pretty steadily, but I really like some of the aspects of this supplement.

During this past month, my weight went down 6 lbs. This is nothing drastic or eye-popping as I believe anyone can safely lose ½ -1 lb of weight/week with a healthy hypocaloric diet and exercise program. But, I have to admit that in comparison to my activity level to the two months previous to this log, I performed far less aerobic/cardio activity during this past month. Seriously, my cardio sucked. The most I got was probably while I was in NYC walking. And at the same time, my diet was only slightly modified, and for that week in NY was quite bad. Despite all this, I'm quite content with the 6 lb loss.

Based on these particular circumstances, I do believe that Dermatherm is a legit product. I'm hesitant to give it a full blown thumbs up due to the fact that I did not do my part to maximize the effects, but I would certainly recommend it to those who are looking to add an effective topical “fat burner” to see if my results can be mimicked. If anything, I think Dermatherm acted as a sort of buffer for me since my cardio was lacking this past month. Don't take this as hesitation on my part in regards to the effectiveness of Dermatherm; I just would like to see someone else experience the same or better results than me.

Aside from the effectiveness of Dermatherm, ease of application may be a factor. For me, spending an extra 5-10 minutes for application and drying of the product was not a big deal, but may be for others. Also, price point may be an issue. While I'm sure the ingredient profile is the valid and dictating reason for the price, some may be deterred as they'll opt for something “cheaper”. And lastly, I liked the “Big Red” smell from the product and the noticeable increase in appettite can be adressed with a good stim or appetite suppressant.

As my availability opens, I look forward to using my Dermacrine and Dermacrine Sustain for a log.

With that said, I'm gonna reward myself with a cookie..... or 2........ or dozen.

If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask.

great review. You're right about the price being a deterrent. I'd love to try this, but until the price comes down, cannot justify using it.

We just revamped the DermaTherm formulation with a new delivery system and ingredients.

Now its spot specific

http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/DermaTherm.html

-Pp

Looks like a solid product. Couple of questions...

Would this stuff be good for targetting visceral fat, or does it mainly work on subcutaneous fat? How many applications would you apply per day? Also, in the writeup it mentions that eviodamine and trans-cinnamaldehyde increase insulin sensitivity... isn't this a bad thing to do in adipose if you want to lose fat?

It would mainly work by reducing subcutaneous tissue, although some of the ingredients will go systemic, and this will reduce visceral fat too. You do one application per day, and the bottle should last about 30 days at a 4 pump dose.

How would increasing insulin sensitivity possibly be bad for fat loss? Are you about to present a paradigm shift right now? ;-)

-Eric

No, no... increased insulin sensitivity in adipose. If this stuff is absorbed locally, and it is being absorbed by fat in the application area, wouldn't it be increasing insulin sensitivity in your fat cells? From what I understand, you want to try to limit nutrient uptake in adipose, so increasing insulin sensitivity in adipose would be bad; increasing insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle would be good of course.

I see what you’re saying, but it’s not quite that simple. (dont forget the complicated leptin regulatory)

Overall the DermaTherm is going to enhance fat release (lipolysis), not fat storage.

-Pp