Mind and Muscle Forums > tianeptine and piracetam

Mind and Muscle Forums > Chemically Correct > Neuroscience, Health & Longevity

lauti

Sep 10 2005, 07:01 PM

Hi,
i am suffering from depression and anxiety and i am taking tianeptine fpr that.
Unfortunately i am a bit tired because of tianeptine ( ssri even more) and thus i want to add piracetam, but i am not sure if that is a wise idea.
Tianeptine decreased the time to deactivate the nmda channel. I am no expert on that issure, but i would summarize that tianeptine decreased the sensivity of the nmda receptors.
Pireacetam on the other hand activates nmda channels, thus faciliating nmda neurotransmission.
I would conclude that tianeptine and piracetam working somehow in the oppsoite way.
One possible side effect of piracetam is depression, thus iam very confused if i could add piracetam.
Here is a very interesting link to the tianeptine issue:
http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/FILES/facul...h.p.kole/c5.pdf

I would be glad for some answers.

jacktheripper21

Sep 11 2005, 01:17 AM

I certainly don't have the knowledge to answer this, but I, too, am very interested in the combination.

liorrh

Sep 11 2005, 02:24 AM

you did raise my interest and I will research a bit on the subject
edit:
the result in the link match how I feel about tianeptine - decreased length and severity of stress "reactions".(nmda)

Colin

Sep 11 2005, 02:41 AM

From all the feedback on this board (Nightop,Dante,etc.ad naseum)extolling the bennies of piracetam I picked some up.I was kinda grooving on the concept of increased cognitive functioning and so on with a comprehensive nootropic stack with piracetam being at the forefront.

Is it now the case that tianeptine and piracetam are not compatible?

liorrh

Sep 11 2005, 02:56 AM

aha.
I know what is the problem here. you assume Pir stimulates only NMDA receptors.
piracetam also potentiates AMPA. so the ratio (which is what is restoredby taineptine) may still be restored.

QUOTE

Eur J Pharmacol. 2002 Apr 5;440(1):27-35. Related Articles, Links

Antidepressant activity of memory-enhancing drugs in the reduction of submissive behavior model.

Knapp RJ, Goldenberg R, Shuck C, Cecil A, Watkins J, Miller C, Crites G, Malatynska E.

Cortex Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Irvine, CA 92718, USA. richard.knapp@aventis.com

The present study tests the activity of nootropic drugs in a behavioral test linked to depression. This test measures the reduction of submissive behavior in a competition test as the relative success of two food-restricted rats to gain access to a feeder. Nootropic drugs tested include piracetam (2-oxo-1-pyrrolidineacetamide), aniracetam (1-(4-methoxybenzoyl)-2-pyrrolidinone), the Ampakine, Ampalex, 1-(quinoxalin-6-ylcarbonyl)piperidine, and analogs were compared to the antidepressants, fluoxetine ((+/-)-N-methyl-gamma-(4-[trifluoromethyl]phenoxy)-benzenepropanamine) and desimpramine (5H-dibenz[b,f]azepine-5-propanamine, 10,11-dihydro-N-methyl-, monohydrochloride), while the anxiolytic diazepam (7-chloro-1-methyl-5-phenyl-3H-1,4-benzodiazepin-2(1H)-one) served as a control. Drugs were given intraperitoneally for 3 weeks. The antidepressant and nootropic drugs reduced submissive behavior over time. The effect was dose dependent as measured for fluoxetine and Ampakines. The reduction of submissive behavior by Ampakines gradually faded after cessation of treatment and had a more rapid onset of activity (during the 1st week of treatment) than fluoxetine (after 2 weeks). The results suggest that Ampakines may have antidepressant activity. The potential of depression treatment with memory-enhancing drugs is hypothesized and the link between cognition and depression is discussed.

PMID: 11959085

au contraire, piracetam is thought to have anti-depressive actions. where did you find data on depression being a side?

lauti

Sep 11 2005, 06:39 AM

QUOTE

where did you find data on depression being a side?

Depression is listed as a possible side effect in my Patient Information Leaflet of piracetam..and i have started piracetam and feel now a bit depressed, somehow counteracting the tianeptine effect, but this can also be a big placebo effect.

liorrh

Sep 11 2005, 07:05 AM

lets talk pseudo science a little, "behavio-transmiters" style

if youre depression/anxiety is related to over-augmentation of "cholinergic", "thinking" side, than yes, piracetam in high doses is not for you. you need to balance yourself, not strengthen your strong points.

end pseudo science.

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