[j03]

I've been taking Wellbutrin XL 150 MG's for a couple weeks, and I feel a lot of positive effects, however, I am having memory and thought issues. I feel like I am straining to think, and when I read I am having trouble processing everything. I also feel like my attention span is reduced.

I read online this is a common issue. I also read a few comments where people claimed Wellbutrin SR didn't cause this issue for them, it was switching the the XL that did it.

Can anyone comment on that?

Also, Modofinal, and ritalin had too many side-effects for me, so i have to exclude them as alternatives, and I've been using tyrosine for a year, and felt nowhere as good as the wellbutrin made me feel. So if this is a permanent side-effect, is Deprenyl the only other dopamine booster out there?

[quasi12]

I've been taking Wellbutrin XL 150 MG's for a couple weeks, and I feel a lot of positive effects, however, I am having memory and thought issues. I feel like I am straining to think, and when I read I am having trouble processing everything. I also feel like my attention span is reduced.

I read online this is a common issue. I also read a few comments where people claimed Wellbutrin SR didn't cause this issue for them, it was switching the the XL that did it.

Can anyone comment on that?

I stopped Wellbutrin for similar reasons. I would describe it more as a brain fog. There were times when I could not seem to concentrate. I had trouble reading as well. I also had tinnitus, which was really distracting, but it did go away. The brain fog did not go away. I only tried SR. I started at 150mg for 1 week and then went to 300mg, 8 hours apart. I ended up stopping after around 6 weeks maybe? I was concerned it would affect my performance in school.

I believe the theory behind the brain fog is that Wellbutrin is anticholinergic. You could try counteracting that with other supplements, but that didn't work for me. You and I may be some of the unlucky ones that can't do Wellbutrin. I also wasn't lucky enough to have the "honeymoon period" that some people get with it! There were a few days where my libido shot through the roof, which felt great.

I've since switched to Zoloft. I swore I'd never try an SSRI again after Paxil, but Zoloft seems much different. It feels pretty activating rather than the almost sedating feeling Paxil gave me. Zoloft supposedly has a weak affinity for dopamine receptors. It may be a good option if you're looking to treat depression.

[Ex Dubio]

I've been taking Wellbutrin XL 150 MG's for a couple weeks, and I feel a lot of positive effects, however, I am having memory and thought issues. I feel like I am straining to think, and when I read I am having trouble processing everything. I also feel like my attention span is reduced.

I read online this is a common issue. I also read a few comments where people claimed Wellbutrin SR didn't cause this issue for them, it was switching the the XL that did it.

Can anyone comment on that?

Also, Modofinal, and ritalin had too many side-effects for me, so i have to exclude them as alternatives, and I've been using tyrosine for a year, and felt nowhere as good as the wellbutrin made me feel. So if this is a permanent side-effect, is Deprenyl the only other dopamine booster out there?

More and more I feel as if Wellbutrin is enormously hit-or-miss. Some have wonderful luck with the drug, which is fantastic, but others (myself included) have had some pretty outrageous experiences.

I took the drug for a period of a few weeks, and definitely experienced a fairly severe "brain fog" or feeling of decreased alertness and awareness. What made me stop, however, was what happened when I had a couple of beers one night.

Despite a high tolerance, I blacked out after only about two strong beers, and failed to remember the rest of the night. (Nothing like that has ever happened before.) My friends described my behavior after that point as erratic, irrational, and out of control - not my usual drunken self. (More intellectually aggressive than physically problematic, usually.)

I don't have any good theories here, other than impugning the anticholinergic effects of bupropion. As for a replacement...what side effects do you get from methylphenidate (Ritalin)? Other options include selegiline (Deprenyl), d-amphetamine (Dexedrine), and other stimulants.

That said, I wonder: brain fog is often associated with not only cholinergic disturbances, but also NE disturbances. How do you respond to ephedrine or adrenergic stimulants?

[DavidWebb]

ditto for myself. I find it hard to understand how everyone can recommend it for ADD, yet it just made mine worse.

joey have you tried nicotine?

[j03]

I read a lot about the generics not working. Could that be why you missed the honeymoon period? I tried Wellbutrin years ago, and it did nothing for me, but I was using the generic.

I felt many positives from Wellbutrin, so it's a shame I had to stop. I am a long sleeper (9-10 hours sometimes) but on Wellbutrin I was waking up after 7 hours feeling totally refreshed. I also didn't crash in mid-day and didn't need a nap. I felt full of life, and energy.

It heightened the feeling of pleasure, and made everything that felt good better (food, sex, appreciation for things, etc.). it felt like I put on a pair of glasses. It turned my world into sunshine and rainbows for a while. Everything seemed more contrasted, and everything appeared more colorful around me. It also increased my sex drive significantly, and reduced my cravings for food. It did help with ADD - I was put into a focused state of mind. But I was straining to think, and my cognition felt odd. Things didn't stick in my brain. I have since stopped and continued Piracetam, and things are back to normal. My memory and thought process is sharp again, but i wish I could feel as good as i did on Wellbutrin.

And Ritalin and Modofinal felt similar to Wellbutrian - Modofinal especially. However, it made me impotent, and unable to get an erection (Wellbutrin had the opposite effect to this ). It also made me unable to sleep. I was staying up until 8AM on it, and sometimes went 24 hours straight because i was so stimulated.

I used to be a heavy smoker, but quit two years ago, so i am hesitant to get addicted to nicotine again, even if it's through patches. i know it's supposedly really good for energy and ADD, and I am tempted to try it.

I think I'll try Deprenyl if i can get a script for it, and if there's no way of resolving the memory issues associated with Wellbutrin.

[krazyj]

I think I'll try Deprenyl if i can get a script for it, and if there's no way of resolving the memory issues associated with Wellbutrin.

That's not the issue.

The issue is not that you have a pathology relating to dopamine and cognition (which deprenyl would be indicated for). This is a side effect of Wellbutrin. In fact, deprenyl would be contra-indicated because the MAO-B inhibition, compounded with the dopamine reuptake inhibition from Wellbutrin, could very easily cause a hypertensive crisis (too much dopaminez). Your doctor almost certainly won't prescribe this combination for you. And if he does, he should be stripped of his license.

This article is regarding amphetamine but you might be able to get something out of it, for what it's worth. Ultimately, it suggests that you may want to lower your dose of Wellbutrin:
http://www.corepsychblog.com/2009/11/vyvan...apeutic-window/

In fact, have you even tried d-amphetamine (Vyvanse, Dexedrine)? I think you'll find that it is pretty different than Ritalin and very different than Modafinil. It may boost your mood slightly in that all dopaminergics elevate mood to a degree. Combine with memantine (which you won't get prescribed but can find elsewhere) to significantly enhance that effect and give you other nice benefits. There are lots of threads around here about that.

[Chaos Theory]

In fact, deprenyl would be contra-indicated because the MAO-B inhibition, compounded with the dopamine reuptake inhibition from Wellbutrin, could very easily cause a hypertensive crisis (too much dopaminez). Your doctor almost certainly won't prescribe this combination for you. And if he does, he should be stripped of his license.

I actually added deprenyl to the wellbutrin I was already taking for just this reason. The wellbutrin made me happy, but in a type of stupor. I found myself having energy, but feeling no reason to use it. Often becoming lost for words. I was constantly playing with my wellbutrin dose to sort this issue. Eventually I just stopped the drug, but only because of hair loss.

I told my doctor I was taking selegiline with the wellbutrin he prescribed me. He asked why but told me "if it's working go ahead and keep taking it." I never had any issues at 150-300mg wellbutrin and 6mg of selegiline a day. Not that I'm telling anyone to do that, but I did for months and had no problems other than a short fuse.

[j03]

That's not the issue.

The issue is not that you have a pathology relating to dopamine and cognition (which deprenyl would be indicated for). This is a side effect of Wellbutrin. In fact, deprenyl would be contra-indicated because the MAO-B inhibition, compounded with the dopamine reuptake inhibition from Wellbutrin, could very easily cause a hypertensive crisis (too much dopaminez). Your doctor almost certainly won't prescribe this combination for you. And if he does, he should be stripped of his license.

This article is regarding amphetamine but you might be able to get something out of it, for what it's worth. Ultimately, it suggests that you may want to lower your dose of Wellbutrin:
http://www.corepsychblog.com/2009/11/vyvan...apeutic-window/

In fact, have you even tried d-amphetamine (Vyvanse, Dexedrine)? I think you'll find that it is pretty different than Ritalin and very different than Modafinil. It may boost your mood slightly in that all dopaminergics elevate mood to a degree. Combine with memantine (which you won't get prescribed but can find elsewhere) to significantly enhance that effect and give you other nice benefits. There are lots of threads around here about that.

I meant i would take Deprenyl instead of Wellbutrin. I stopped Wellbutrin a couple days ago now. The memory thing was too much.

That article recomented PEA for ADD. And from my understanding PEA needs an MAOI like Deprenyl to cross the blood-brain barrier. So that would be the likely next step for me.

I felt the same on Ritalin and Modofinal. The vascoconstrion was intense, and the sleep issues were bad. But I'll still look into those other stims.

[j03]

I actually added deprenyl to the wellbutrin I was already taking for just this reason. The wellbutrin made me happy, but in a type of stupor. I found myself having energy, but feeling no reason to use it. Often becoming lost for words. I was constantly playing with my wellbutrin dose to sort this issue. Eventually I just stopped the drug, but only because of hair loss.

I told my doctor I was taking selegiline with the wellbutrin he prescribed me. He asked why but told me "if it's working go ahead and keep taking it." I never had any issues at 150-300mg wellbutrin and 6mg of selegiline a day. Not that I'm telling anyone to do that, but I did for months and had no problems other than a short fuse.

Selegiline had no effect on energy levels? How did the two compare? i was hoping selegilinewould feel like Wellbutrin

[krazyj]

That article recomented PEA for ADD. And from my understanding PEA needs an MAOI like Deprenyl to cross the blood-brain barrier. So that would be the likely next step for me.

Yeah, he gets into that. The key of that article was the suggestion of lowering dose. PEA needs an MAO-B inhibitor to not get extensively metabolized by the MAO-B enzyme, btw. But then that turns PEA, an otherwise benign supplement, into an addictive chemical not unlike amphetamine. Do some research/searchin.

As far as the antidepressant effect of selegiline, I wonder what higher doses would feel like (with dietary restrictions, of course). I'm not sure too many people around here have headed north of the MAO-B selective dose.

[DavidWebb]

Selegiline had no effect on energy levels? How did the two compare? i was hoping selegilinewould feel like Wellbutrin

depending on the dose selegiline can be mildly stimulating. it can also cause extreme lethargy. it can also cause hyopmania. ime, these states progress as the dose excalates due to the j curve of the drug. (and the metabolites may play a role in perceived stimulation initially.)

[Jay Black]

Taking into account what's been said about nicotine, bupriopion, and amphetamine, I wonder if using nicotine and amp would keep the memory working correctly, while it's also a nice stack for anti-depression, anxiolytic (IME), motivational, and enhanced focus...no side effects I'm aware of...

[DavidWebb]

Taking into account what's been said about nicotine, bupriopion, and amphetamine, I wonder if using nicotine and amp would keep the memory working correctly, while it's also a nice stack for anti-depression, anxiolytic (IME), motivational, and enhanced focus...no side effects I'm aware of...

Well, I'm currently sucking on a lozenge and I took WB this morning. Prior to popping the lozenge the methylphenidate in my system wasn't doing a lot to remedy the spaciness of the wellbutrin, but it did help some. The nicotine seems to help in this department more so (but I rarely use nicotine so tolerance would factor in of course), and I'd imagine that d-amp would probably stack nicely as well. I think I'll try that in a few days and see if it helps. Otherwise mph + wb is an all around great stack.

I should also note I took some deprenyl a couple days ago, and on that day I didn't seem to be bothered by the spaciness, probably due to the metabolites.

[Jay Black]

Yeah, I'm diggin' this combo, even though I'm on the Wellbutrin (450mg QD) to help quit the Copenhagen habit...lol

[Ex Dubio]

Taking into account what's been said about nicotine, bupriopion, and amphetamine, I wonder if using nicotine and amp would keep the memory working correctly, while it's also a nice stack for anti-depression, anxiolytic (IME), motivational, and enhanced focus...no side effects I'm aware of...

Yeah, I've used the combination fairly frequently for a few years, though I don't see any reason why amphetamine itself should cause any memory deficits except at extraordinary doses.

While nicotine and amphetamine together do wonders for motivation and focus, their effects also depend on method of administration.

Nicotine gum/lozenges are great for short boosts, but they're not exactly anti-depressant material, clocking in at only 1-2 hours of active effects. The patch is excellent all-around, but also prone to more side effects, insomnia, etc. Bruxism, blood pressure elevations, tachycardia, hypogylcemia, etc. are all occasional side effects, depending on physiology.

Also, see the recent thread on nicotine gum. Even if amphetamine is neurotoxic (and that's pretty unlikely, practically speaking), it looks like nicotine is still a good order of magnitude worse for your health due to its anti-apoptotic and atherosclerotic effects. Not sure if you'd count that as a side effect, but it certainly deserves some degree of hesitation.

Though I know many on this board are resistant to the idea, I suspect that for many the single best compound to stack with amphetamine is a low-dose SSRI.