[Whacked]

Is it possible that taking too many supps can cause kidney stress and perhaps slight overload - then dysfunction?

I have had some elevated creatinine levels recently that are the subject for concern per my Doc

I take a crap-load of supps to compensate for my low carb eating.

TONS of anti-oxidants (making sure I get an adequate supply+ to cover the gamut on the different types)
Fish oil
Sesamax
Calcium-Mag
Powerfull (GH-release at night)
Multi-vitamin/mineral
Milk thistle
Amino Acids/BCAA+EAA
Potassium
Apple Cider Vinegar
B-complex
Prostate-protection supp
CissusRx
Probiotics
Stims pre-w/o only
(NO CREATINE - I did for 5 years straight though up to about a year ago)

Im ~40 and sitting at about 10% b.fat. I just feel like I need all of these supplements. Are they causing me problems?

[steaky]

Bump for this

I take an even bigger list than that and although all my supps are targetted for "wellness" I've had a couple of concerned people saying it might be too stressful for my kidneys (neither were doctors although one was a busty nurse)

[Whacked]

I imagine many on these health forums do, especially since we have the added intrerest of protection from the adverse consequences of steroid use, therefore, implementing a preventative (supps) strategy.

I sure hope Benson and the rest of the gifted participate in this thread as this issue has been bothering me for some time.

[dashforce]

Im ~40 and sitting at about 10% b.fat. I just feel like I need all of these supplements. Are they causing me problems?

Approx bodyweight and height? And creatinine levels?

[Benson]

Elevated urinary creatinine levels, in isolation, don't tell you much.

For starters, the "normal" range for men doesn't accommodate men with a lot of muscle mass very well. And a diet heavy in red meat will also tend to raise creatinine levels due to the creatine in the meat.

What you need is a GFR or creatinine clearance rate test which will compare the levels of creatinine in your blood with that in your urine.

[Whacked]

Some numbers

Serum
BUN: 21 NORMAL (7-25)
CREATININE: 1.41 (.79 -1.33) Slightly high (first time ever to my knowledge)

*****The thing that is really of concern, is this damn Kidney Stone Risk Profile I took. I have a kidney stone and wanted to figure out the compostion. Urine Creatinine Level 2701 (800-2000)

I will add that I did eat protein throughout the 24-hour urine evaluation b/c the idiots never warned me not to so I need to re-do but the doc suspects that this may NOT bring me to normal levels (testing w/o protein ingestion)

PS: I do not eat red meat but I consume a lot of chicken and fish. No creatine supps. Im 5'11 210

[nightop]

Yeah, get a test of kidney function, not just the creatinine levels at one timepoint in urine, as Benson said. The other thing is that people (including nurses and physicians) tend to talk out of their ass and say things that aren't necessarily backed up by a scientific rationale, and the idea that if you take X number of supplements you get Y or Z effects on your kidneys is extremely simplistic and probably erroneous.

[Whacked]

Finally got my test results. Still sort of worried here. As instructed, I avoided all meat/protein for 24 hours and ALL forms of exercise for 48 hours in an effort to provide accurate values.


Creatinine 24 Hour Urine .............. 2.88 HIGH** (.63-2.50)
Creatinine Clearance .................... 143 HIGH** (85-125)
Creatinine (serum/blood)................ 1.40 HIGH** (.79 -1.33)
GFR................................................ 57 LOW*** ( >60)

BUN.............................................. 13 NORMAL (7-25)
BUN-to-Creatinine Ratio ................. 9.3 NORMAL (6-22)
Albumin........................................ 4.5 NORMAL (3.6-5.1)
Globulin........................................ 2.5 NORMAL (2.1-3.7)
A/G Ratio..................................... 1.8 NORMAL (1.0-2.1)

Urine was negative for Protein, Blood, Glucose, etc [Normal urinalysis]

[dashforce]

Your concern is justified. Although I can't imagine any of those supps would be causing your problem, I think this is definitely grounds for a prompt appt with your GP. Hopefully your HTN meds / adjustments will help bring this under control.

[Benson]

Are you black?

[Whacked]

Are you black?

No

Dash: What is HTN?

[Benson]

What is HTN?

Hypertension.

[Whacked]

Thanks

Hypertension.

[Whacked]

I was freaked and could not stand the thought of waiting 3 weeks to see Nephro so I contacted one of those Doc-advice online services.

Cost me $25. Worth it in lieu of my fear.

She said I have little to worry about.
The brief report:
A-G ratio, Bun and Bun-to-Creatinine values look great as do the individual albumin and globulin and protein numbers.

I am posting up for a second reason - so you all can learn from my error in testing:

She happens to be an exercising/fitness Doc - she understood my personal scenario very well.

She told me that ALL BCAA's should be stopped ONE FULL WEEK in advance of the study ( I only did for 24 hours per the general recommendation of no protein sources of any kind). She said somethinbg about creatine kinase and amino shortage and skewed numbers, etc (had no clue what she was talking about at that point)

Good news for now, but I need to re-test with a diff approach next time. She also relayed that the numbers were out of range but nothing to be worried about.

[Benson]

What service did you use?

[Whacked]

http://www.liveperson.com/experts/health-m...ialty-medicine/

What service did you use?

[djremix]

if you test the same after a month then its time to look into it.
and ive seen numbers for people with actuall kidney problems, they are way higher.

but if this is the first time, then something must have triggered it. there are alot of herbal formulaes that help with the kindeys, and you can do them in less than a week.

maybe you just a need a week off, that 10% bodyfat certainly maybe taxing if you keep it year round

[Whacked]

there are alot of herbal formulaes that help with the kindeys, and you can do them in less than a week.

Such as?

[dashforce]

I would remain skeptical and get a second opinion with a nephro.

[FunkOdyssey]

but if this is the first time, then something must have triggered it. there are alot of herbal formulaes that help with the kindeys, and you can do them in less than a week.

I actually have the opposite opinion -- if you are having kidney problems or other new and mysterious health problems the FIRST thing I would eliminate from your supplemental regimen are all the herbal products. These often have a huge variety of effects on the body that have not been fully characterized as well as presenting a risk for contamination (heavy metals etc).

So, from your regimen I would eliminate the following and then retest the kidney values:

USP Powerfull
Cissus
Prostate protection supp
Milk thistle (*gasp* yes I included milk thistle even though it should theoretically be helpful)

Also what are these "TON of antioxidants" specifically? And what stims are you taking? Both categories could include other possible troublemakers.

[FunkOdyssey]

Another thought, this could just be a manifestation of dehydration / volume loss, maybe a result of ultra-low carb diet, disturbed electrolytes, stimulants, that sort of thing.

[djremix]

Such as?

herbdoc.com has them. 100 year old formulaes tweaked.

as for the reasons, funkodessey makes a great point about low carb/possible dehydration as the cause if nothing else...

[Whacked]

Funk, DJ: Good point for sure! Although my urine is usually light yellow, it could be clearer. Unfortunately, even the gallon of water of day I get may not be enough as I prefer it to be clearer. I know that B-vitamins and the will cause some yellowing but I do need to drink more water. I strive to be lean so hard at times via carb depeletion that I'm also "flat" in the gym quite often, I just accepted that as the exchange for being lean.

I also think Funk may be correct with his logic that some of these herbs I may be taking could be causing nephrotic stress. It is plausible and an interesting thought. USP Powerfull and Cissus top the list of concern here.

Thanks for all the help here.