[jhp2009]

Been taking Adderall IR for 9 months straight everyday (with occassional days off...maybe 2 per month).

I'm going to be entertaining visitors vacationing with me for 10 days starting next week. After that, I start up summer school.

I figure I should take an extended break from Adderall then because I will be busy entertaining people, and not have time to read or do other Adderall-related tasks. Also, I hope to get a "refreshed" tolerance before summer school.

However, I'm afraid I'm going to be completely lethargic and sluggish with my visitors and not have any fun. I don't feel like I go into an intense withdrawal when I don't take adderall for 1-2 days, but I definitely feel foggy.


In the not so distant past, I have taken Wellbutrin and Lexapro. I am hesitant to take Wellbutrin because it (like Adderall) stimulates dopamine, so it seems like my DA receptors will not "get a break" even if I take Adderall. I really liked Lexapro, and it apparently only stimulates serotonin. I'm wondering if I could take Lexapro for the 10 days that I am "vacationing" and it will keep me in a good mood and good energy for my visitors, while circumventing the withdrawal-like sluggishness and fog I anticipate from taking a holiday from adderall.

I only anticipate taking Lexapro for those 10 days. (I currently ONLY take Adderall IR). I will probably take a low dose of Lexapro, and I might even do an accelerated titration (if thats the right word)...like, take 2.5 mgs for 2 days, 5 mgs for 2 days, 7.5 mgs for 2 days, 5 mgs for 2 days, then 2.5 mgs for 2 days, then 0 mgs. Is that safe to do? (take lex for such a brief stint)

[krazyj]

Anecdotally, reports of withdrawl/sluggish feelings last for a week or two with full wakefulness not returning for about a month.

Possibly lots of caffeine and modafinil if you have any might be of help. Definitely (!) get enough sleep at night or that will exacerbate all of your problems, anyways.

If you are concerned about tolerance, you could throw in memantine. There are plenty of topics around here on that. No way you'll be able to get a doc to prescribe this for you, though (unless you have a very, very open doc and a very, very good proposal prepared... even then, namenda scripts are expensive).

Lexapro will not do anything for your energy but, of course, will do the standard SSRI effects on mood. If anything, though, I imagine that the excess serotonin would cause you to be more tired. Plus, I don't Lexapro takes effect, fully, until about a week or two later. And, even then, you must taper off carefully. It isn't an instant effect like Adderall. Nor is it a harmless withdrawl like Adderall.

I'm a big fan of d-amp + memantine. It has worked pretty well for me in terms of smoothing out the rough edges from d-amp and, generally, improving mood (in the form of hedonism and motivation, not anti-depressant). But that's just my 2c. You can't get a doctor to prescribe it for you so you could, theoretically, be taking on risks to pursue this route.

[Chuck]

How about taking a benzodiazepine sedative to help you sleep off the withdrawal? Throw in some magnesium (I recommend magnesium citrate) for NMDA-upregulation. L-tyrosine may also help in replenishing dopamine in those storage vesicles.

I've never heard of citalopram (Celexa) having an effect on dopamine levels, but it's an SSRI so it might take a few weeks to feel the anti-depressive effect.

[krazyj]

How about taking a benzodiazepine sedative to help you sleep off the withdrawal? Throw in some magnesium (I recommend magnesium citrate) for NMDA-upregulation.

If you go the magnesium route, take it at night so it doesn't exacerbate any daytime fatigue.

[Ubiyca]

You're worried about being sluggish and whatnot and you wanna take Lexapro? lol..

I would highly advise against it man, seriously.

[jhp2009]

Let me re-phrase this: I am worried about being CRANKY during "vacation."

I put "vacation" in quotes because I'm not travelling anywhere -- friends from out of town are visiting me.

So I have this little chunk of time in between semesters when I don't NEED to be taking adderall, but I worry that I will be cranky and not-fun-to-be-around and my "vacation" with friends will be unpleasant.

*I mention that I am not travelling and that they are simply visiting me because paying for plane tickets, hotel, etc. kind of raises the stakes and makes it more important to make sure you are having a good time. But in this case, I really like the people visiting, but they are only here for for an event and then they have extended their stay to spend time with me and see the sights, etc.



I will get plenty of sleep. But I'm worried I will be unfriendly and unenthusiastic about the various touristy activities we have planned. On the other hand, whatever fogginess and sluggishness cause from my cessation of adderall might be offset by the anomalous set of social activities and engagement that I have scheduled for that week. In other words, if I decided to stop taking adderall when I had an application or paper due, that would be a nightmare...but my only obligations in this situation/time period are to reminisce, tell jokes, dance around, drink, show sights, eat out, tell stories, etc....

I use Adderall for reading, and I won't be reading much while hosting visitors. But I worry that scheduling my temporary cessation of Adderall in line with their arrival will cause my general mood, friendliness, and what not to go BELOW baseline.

I am starting a tough summer school load right after my friends leave. I have been meaning to take a holiday from Adderall, and it seems oppurtune to take this holiday right before starting up school (when I will DEFINITELY need Adderall basically everyday) especially since this time coincides a "vacation" during which I will have a lot of social distractions.

I'm wondering if Lexapro will help me still enjoy my friends' company, even though I want to take a break from Adderall during that time.

May 15 - Stop taking Adderall (25mg/day) and start taking Lexapro (5 mg/day)
May 15 - 25 - Totally relax, play with friends, touristy activities, reminisce, eat out, go out, etc.
May 25 - Stop Lexapro (5mg/day)
May 30 - Start summer school, intense reading, studying, etc., but hopefully the break from adderall leading up to summer school will somewhat refresh my tolerance by "resetting" my sensitiviting, perhaps I will only need 10-15 mg of Adderall at the start of summer school.

If I am successfull able to get my tolerance down to 10-15 mg, perhaps it will still raise to 30mg by the end of summer school. But if i just continue as such and start summer school with my 25 mg tolerance, I worry I might need about 45 mg's of Adderall by the end of it.

[SoulSeeker]

Your plan doesn't make sense pharmacologically.

SSRIs take at least 2-3 weeks to notice any effects. Psychiatrists I've talked to recommend trying them for at least 6 weeks (sometimes 8-10) to get enough saturation and influence on serotonin receptors to show clinical efficacy for a disorder. There's no way Lexapro is going to have a significant (non-placebo) effect for your plan of 1-10 days.

What you might consider is keep taking your adderall, but at low doses, maybe 12.5mg or even 6.25mg daily so it's not an abrupt change for your system.

Better yet, just go cold turkey. Taking stimulants usually makes people CRANKY, not withdrawing from them. If anything, you're going to feel a little sluggish and apathetic. I would just quit the adderall (so you're not building tolerance and ruining your state-specific learning (associating stimulant use only with studying)).

Just drink some coffee to combat the lethargy, and have fun with your friends. Relax a little. You're probably being too self-conscious about how you're behaving and how things need to be ideal socially. This mindset is probably going to cause more problems than any medication tweaking.

[jhp2009]

Ok, thanks...yeah I'm probably overanalyzing a little.

In my experience, SSRI lik lexapro work pretty quickly, and I don't think it's entirely placebo. But maybe i just took a large relative dose during the times that I would just take it once and feel the effect.

Does L-tyrosine replenishing dopamine in vesicles achieve something different than taking Adderall? i am stopping adderall to combat tolerance -- but L-tyrosine will not counteract that? If that is the case, shouldnt i just take L-tyrosine all the time?

I'm not worried about withdrawal per se, as in stuck in bed, can't move, sleeping all day, etc. So a benzo might be unneccessary. I'm just worried about having a very "flat affect"

[SoulSeeker]

Here's my take on the flat-affect (for interpersonal situations).

Dopaminergic stimulants make many users more extroverted and animated. Sometimes this comes off as engaging and interesting, and other times it just seems like you're talking someone's ear off.

I think the problem is that when your SNS is unnaturally stimulated, being on overdrive may hamper subtle social skills that are important to interpersonal communication (empathy, picking up on facial cues, having patience for others to finish what they're saying, not speaking ruminatively or tangentially).

Thus, it may actually be better sometimes to be a little more flat affect, but more attuned to the conversation. This may depend on the situation--a stimulant may be helpful while meeting a lot of new people at a crowded party, but it might actually be hurtful during an prolonged/intimate one-on-one conversation if you're not as attuned to your conversational partner's needs. For example, maybe a date likes you being confident and funny, but maybe they would prefer some consolation and genuineness that day. I believe the gregariousness of stimulants comes at the cost of psychological flexibility.

[krazyj]

I think the problem is that when your SNS is unnaturally stimulated, being on overdrive may hamper subtle social skills that are important to interpersonal communication (empathy, picking up on facial cues, having patience for others to finish what they're saying, not speaking ruminatively or tangentially).

Thus, it may actually be better sometimes to be a little more flat affect, but more attuned to the conversation. This may depend on the situation--a stimulant may be helpful while meeting a lot of new people at a crowded party, but it might actually be hurtful during an prolonged/intimate one-on-one conversation if you're not as attuned to your conversational partner's needs. For example, maybe a date likes you being confident and funny, but maybe they would prefer some consolation and genuineness that day. I believe the gregariousness of stimulants comes at the cost of psychological flexibility.

Ding ding ding.

Story of my life.

If we had a solution to this, you would never see me posting here, again. +100 on that last line, too.

[StillAlive]

I'm on citalopram, which is almost the same as Lexapro and the first weeks are teribble on it like many SSRI they will worsen your mood the first week and that's not what you want when you experience a withdrawel.

But perhaps anything else would do the job. L-tyrosine dosen't seem to be so effective of what i heard but perhaps some phenylalanine or L-dopa would do the job.

If you notice that you became really "flat" and sleepy after a few days and you can't handle it you could always return to adderall. Then your plan didn't work but no diaster have happend and you could have fun the rest of the week.

Out of curiosity, would one week normalize tolerance?

[jhp2009]

Sometimes at the end of the day after taking adderall, I feel crashed. Red eyes, can't move my facial expressions, just totally apathetic.

Early on, before I learned hwo to predict and recognize when I was crashing, I would be in social situations or at a party, totally "crashed" yet have such flattened volition that I wouldn't even think or feel motivated to excuse myself, go home, and sleep!

I'm not worried that I won't feel as charged, friendly, or funny. It is a given that I will not be as stimulated when I am off the stimulants. However, I'm worried that I will feel "crashed" the whole time I am off Adderall.

It's just really hard to predict how I will feel without actually trying to go off it for a few days.

Sometimes in the mornings, I definitely don't feel stimulated and I would have a hard time focusing if I tried reading or swiftly doing chores/shower/getting ready for my day. But I still feel "fine" as in "not crash." I can chat with my roommate, watch the news on TV and comprehend what's going on, etc.

I have never tried phenylaline. But it seems counterintuitive for my situation, because I am looking to cease dopamine agonism in order to refresh my DA receptors sensitivity. I suppose my logic with serotonin is that I can cease stimulating neurotransmitter, and counteract the generally "crash" by boosting a separate neurotransmitter system. I was hoping to temporarily lose the adderall effects (ability to read well, focus, do work) but gain the serotonin boost effects (better mood, optimism, etc.) in order to still have a good time with my visitors.

I feel like my logic is being a little misunderstood here, but I suppose I don't have a sophisticated understanding of the mechanisms at play. I merely have anecdotal experience -- when I was on Lexapro, my ADHD was exacerbated but I was generally always in a great mood. Adderall helps my ADHD, but when I am off it, I feel "worse than neutral" or "crashed." I really wish I understood the exact mechanisms at play so I could explain and articulate this better, rather than relying on vague "phenomenological" terms!

[jhp2009]

Out of curiosity, would one week normalize tolerance?

unfortunately, I've never done it, so I don't really know. I doubt it would completely "normalize" tolerance, but it might take about that long for it to fully leave your system, for your DA receptors to recognize the absence of exogenous dopamine agonism, and to start upregulating receptor sensitivity.

So I dont intend for one week to be sufficient in normalizing tolerance, but it may make some dent, whereas, say, taking Sundays off, even though in total might be the same amount of days off, is not as effective than taking 4-5 days off in a row each 30 or so days.

[Ubiyca]

Honestly, if I were you, I'd buy some Slim Xtreme caps from anabolix xtreme, it's basically the old original kickass 'can't believe this is legal' stimulant x formula.

[krazyj]

Maybe it is worth pointing out that perhaps the bigger solution to all of this is to work with your Adderall dosing and see if you can tweak it to find a long-term solution you can live with so you don't have to drop off of it for various social arrangements.