[Primordial Performance]

We just got some blood test results back from a very satisfied customer.

The 40 yr old male had chronically low testosterone. He had his hormone values checked on 12/9/07 prior to running an 8 week 1-T THP ether / Superdrol cycle. His levels where at 289ng/dl.

For PCT I instructed him to use Sustain Alpha with Toco-8. He didn’t expect to get his T levels past 300ng/dl since he had had low T level for so long. After the cycle, he ran the PCT for 30 days, then got his hormones values tested 30 days after PCT.

After PCT, his results came back with the highest levels of Testosterone he had in years --782 ng/dl. You will also notice a reduction in LH/FSH. This shows that his testes where sensitized to the effects of the LH/FSH and where able to make more testosterone with less stimulation. Toco-8 helps make the testes more sensitive to LH/FSH – testicular sensitivity is key.

We sell the Testosterone Recovery Stack which includes Sustain Alpha, Toco-8 and EndoAmp (30 day supply). This is a complete, legal, PCT stack for only $119.99

You can purchase this stack here - www.primordialperformance.com

Thanks guys.

-Pp

Attached File(s)

•  ZRT_results.jpg (92.32K)
  Number of downloads: 1152

[dragula]

How long was his cycle and was this stack standalone for PCT? Did he use any during-cycle ancillaries?

[Primordial Performance]

How long was his cycle and was this stack standalone for PCT? Did he use any during-cycle ancillaries?

His cycle was 8 weeks. These where the only items he used for PCT..... no anacils.

-Pp

[BlackFlag]

We just got some blood test results back from a very satisfied customer.

The 40 yr old male had chronically low testosterone, and was a repetitive user of pro-hormones. He had his hormone values checked on 12/9/07 prior to running an 8 week 1-T THP ether / Superdrol cycle. His levels where at 289ng/dl.

For PCT I instructed him to use Sustain Alpha with Toco-8. He didn’t expect to get his T levels past 300ng/dl since he had had low T level for so long. After the cycle, he ran the PCT for 30 days, then got his hormones values tested 30 days after PCT.

After PCT, his results came back with the highest levels of Testosterone he had in years --782 ng/dl. You will also notice a reduction in LH/FSH. This shows that his testes where sensitized to the effects of the LH/FSH and where able to make more testosterone with less stimulation. Toco-8 helps make the testes more sensitive to LH/FSH – testicular sensitivity is key.

We sell the Testosterone Recovery Stack which includes Sutain Alpha, Toco-8 and EndoAmp (30 day supply). This is a complete, legal, PCT stack for only $119.99

You can purchase this stack here - www.primordialperformance.com

Plus, we offer FREE shipping when you order this stack.

Thanks guys.

-Pp

Wow! Thats pretty impressive. It temps me to try to come off TRT. Hell, if you want a real lab rat, I would come off TRT and run a sponsored log to see if I would recover. I have been on TRT for 13 months with no HCG. I am on TRT due to prior AAS use.

[methodice]

Looks nice. How much difference would adding the endoamp make?

[dashforce]

Damn. Impressive.

[Primordial Performance]

Looks nice. How much difference would adding the endoamp make?

Im not sure exactly... It would probably make the biggest difference for those that have a tendency to over-train. (Endoamp = protection from cortisol damage)

-Pp

[fitzchivalry]

Wow! Thats pretty impressive. It temps me to try to come off TRT. Hell, if you want a real lab rat, I would come off TRT and run a sponsored log to see if I would recover. I have been on TRT for 13 months with no HCG. I am on TRT due to prior AAS use.

I'm with this guy. My test levels are at 270 for totals, etc. after a very mild ph cycle in which I haven't fully bounced back yet (6 months). I might have to give this a shot if the doctors continue to do nothing/don't care because I'm in the "normal" range still.

[dashforce]

PP -- Do you guys not even have your own forum here @ M&M?

[dragula]

This is very impressive. Does the majority agree that this is the first possibility for a proper OTC PCT?

[BlackFlag]

This is very impressive. Does the majority agree that this is the first possibility for a proper OTC PCT?

The above levels look better then post SERM blood levels. Clomid doesnt even give levels like that. Hell, my TRT levels aren't even that high.

[Primordial Performance]

PP -- Do you guys not even have your own forum here @ M&M?

Lol... no forum. They send newsletters out for us instead. ;-)

-Pp

[dashforce]

Does the majority agree that this is the first possibility for a proper OTC PCT?

Well, if the results are replicable... N=1. A good 1, but still just 1.

PP -- do yall have results for other blood test-backed testers?

[Primordial Performance]

Well, if the results are replicable... N=1. A good 1, but still just 1.

PP -- do yall have results for other blood test-backed testers?

This is the first test we've gotten back from a customer (unbiased) who actualy tested before a cycle to get reliable readings. Ive been told that a few more tests are on the way from guys in the same situation.

-Pp

[dashforce]

Sweet!

[thebrakes]

i guess i'll play devil's advocate and ask if this "chronic PH user" perhaps was suppressed from a previous steroid cycle when he got tested at 289...to cycle something strong, then use 4 weeks of PCT, then 4 weeks later and you're at thrice the T? it doesnt add up. i have to conclude that he was suppressed when first tested, or perhaps he was still using an AI when he was tested 2 months after stopping.

[thecrownedone]

IIRC, liorrh had similar results taking forskolin.

[dashforce]

i guess i'll play devil's advocate and ask if this "chronic PH user" perhaps was suppressed from a previous steroid cycle when he got tested at 289...to cycle something strong, then use 4 weeks of PCT, then 4 weeks later and you're at thrice the T? it doesnt add up. i have to conclude that he was suppressed when first tested, or perhaps he was still using an AI when he was tested 2 months after stopping.

I agree that a review of the literature on tocopherols seems to show potential for a significant raise in Test -- but nothing like what was seen in this gentleman. I wonder if there was anything else going on with these tests.

[Travis]

i guess i'll play devil's advocate and ask if this "chronic PH user" perhaps was suppressed from a previous steroid cycle when he got tested at 289...to cycle something strong, then use 4 weeks of PCT, then 4 weeks later and you're at thrice the T? it doesnt add up. i have to conclude that he was suppressed when first tested, or perhaps he was still using an AI when he was tested 2 months after stopping.

I know the individual who completed these tests and the cycle above was his first cycle of PH's ever (I'm almost 100% positive of this).

[Primordial Performance]

i guess i'll play devil's advocate and ask if this "chronic PH user" perhaps was suppressed from a previous steroid cycle when he got tested at 289...to cycle something strong, then use 4 weeks of PCT, then 4 weeks later and you're at thrice the T? it doesnt add up. i have to conclude that he was suppressed when first tested, or perhaps he was still using an AI when he was tested 2 months after stopping.

I pretty sure he had used pro-hormones before (or low doses of TRT)… but I will ask him again to make sure. I know the tester had been clean for at least a couple months before testing.

-Pp

[dashforce]

If it had only been a few months since his last cycle, it might be interesting to ask about his PCT, if any, that appears to have been pretty... well 289 ng/dl speaks for itself.

[Primordial Performance]

Travis, you where right. He hadnt used any pro-hormones or steroids at all before. I dont know where I got that idea along the line.

-Pp

[Mr.Kite]

[public service announcement]

Anyone who is intrigued by these results, can get a capped version of Toco-8, produced by NSI for under $14 - it's the same Tocomin branded extract at the same dose with the same servings (HERE). Jarrow also makes the same sort of thing (and it appears to be the same extract since it uses the same SupraBio absorbtion system that Tocomin uses), but with more Squalene, Phytosterols, and Mixed Carotenoids for around $14 (HERE).

I hate the rain on the parade PP, but if you come out with a product that works (as this one seems to), you might want to make sure that your prices are competitive (and refrain from raping your customer's wallets).

[/public service announcement]

[Lost Metal]

You went from this

"The 40 yr old male had chronically low testosterone, and was a repetitive user of pro-hormones. He had his hormone values checked on 12/9/07 prior to running an 8 week 1-T THP ether / Superdrol cycle"

To this

"Travis, you where right. He hadnt used any pro-hormones or steroids at all before. I dont know where I got that idea along the line."

It just seems like a bunch of bullshit.
Doesn't anyone ask for proof or dig deeper anymore?
The supplement industry is getting dumber every single day,
I'm surprised everything hasn't been banned yet.

[thebrakes]

another dimension i am confused with here is this:

how in the he11 did this product CONTINUE to keep T levels elevated 4 weeks after stopping? there's only one way to explain that - the person using was suppressed when the first T test was given. now, i think i've read that some courses of HCG and low-dose clomid can have a stimulatory effect on T levels well after discontinuation, due to a secondarily hypogonadal patient (whether by steroid use or another cause)....but even this clinical phenomenon requires the patient to be suppressed going in...

still, if true it appears to be an effective stimulant of hypothalamic activity, and may have an application for us. i'm interested.

[FunkOdyssey]

Anyone who is intrigued by these results, can get a capped version of Toco-8, produced by NSI for under $14 - it's the same Tocomin branded extract at the same dose with the same servings (HERE). Jarrow also makes the same sort of thing (and it appears to be the same extract since it uses the same SupraBio absorbtion system that Tocomin uses), but with more Squalene, Phytosterols, and Mixed Carotenoids for around $14 (HERE).

I hate the rain on the parade PP, but if you come out with a product that works (as this one seems to), you might want to make sure that your prices are competitive (and refrain from raping your customer's wallets).

lol.... I would have rained on the parade if you hadn't. I already ordered some Jarrow Toco-sorb over the weekend, looks like great stuff.

[Primordial Performance]

[public service announcement]

Anyone who is intrigued by these results, can get a capped version of Toco-8, produced by NSI for under $14 - it's the same Tocomin branded extract at the same dose with the same servings (HERE). Jarrow also makes the same sort of thing (and it appears to be the same extract since it uses the same SupraBio absorbtion system that Tocomin uses), but with more Squalene, Phytosterols, and Mixed Carotenoids for around $14 (HERE).

I hate the rain on the parade PP, but if you come out with a product that works (as this one seems to), you might want to make sure that your prices are competitive (and refrain from raping your customer's wallets).

[/public service announcement]

All the tocotrienol products will contain the same relative squalane, phytosterols and carotenoid amount – because it’s all coming from the same manufacturer in the same ratios. (Tocomin or Tocomax) The same stuff is in our Toco-8.

Our tocomax powder is the most bio-available (and potent) tocotrienol complex on the market. The softgel encapsulation process is very heat intensive, which does degrade the product potency, whereas our product is powder stored in refrigeration and kept away from heat as much as possible.

We are also a smaller supplement company compared to a massive international corporation like Jarrow. Being that we work with smaller quantities, and bring the toco-8 from manufacturer > consumer within weeks we probably pay a much higher price per kilo -- but thanks anyway for the accusations that we “rape our customers wallets”.

Lost Metal,

The member who did the blood testing is EasyEJL. You can find him on AM if you want to ask about the testing. He has no affiliation to the company whatsoever.

When I said he was a male with “chronically low testosterone”, this was true. He had tested his testosterone levels before and found them to be in the high 200 range, and then tested again right before his cycle.

I remember hearing that he had also used hormones in the past. It was a simple miscommunication between him and I, thus the misinformation about his pro-hormone use. Sorry for this.

-Pp

[Travis]

You went from this

"The 40 yr old male had chronically low testosterone, and was a repetitive user of pro-hormones. He had his hormone values checked on 12/9/07 prior to running an 8 week 1-T THP ether / Superdrol cycle"

To this

"Travis, you where right. He hadnt used any pro-hormones or steroids at all before. I dont know where I got that idea along the line."

It just seems like a bunch of bullshit.
Doesn't anyone ask for proof or dig deeper anymore?
The supplement industry is getting dumber every single day,
I'm surprised everything hasn't been banned yet.

Lost everything in Pp's original statement was accurate besides "and was a repetitive user of pro-hormones". And I can see how Pp may have confused this as he is actively involved in a lot of "PH" related discussions on other boards. Regardless it was cleared up and accurate information was given.

another dimension i am confused with here is this:

how in the he11 did this product CONTINUE to keep T levels elevated 4 weeks after stopping? there's only one way to explain that - the person using was suppressed when the first T test was given. now, i think i've read that some courses of HCG and low-dose clomid can have a stimulatory effect on T levels well after discontinuation, due to a secondarily hypogonadal patient (whether by steroid use or another cause)....but even this clinical phenomenon requires the patient to be suppressed going in...

still, if true it appears to be an effective stimulant of hypothalamic activity, and may have an application for us. i'm interested.

You have to keep in mind that both during his cycle and during PCT he lost a considerable amount of BF. And what do obese men often have....low test. I wouldnt at all say this individual was obese to begin with but the overall improvements in body composition could have likely adjusted his test levels for the better.

Btw, I have zero affiliation with PP. I have only received outstanding customer service and a positive experience with the products I have used (so yeah I'm biased). Also has anyone ever tried starting their own supp company? I have, and its not as easy as you think...