[Colin]

I've got a bottle of Superdrol that I'm giving to a friend,who is an actual friend and not a "friend" e.g. I am not going to use this myself.I'd like to get some feedback on this compound so I can give him a proper cycle.

Brief disclaimer-he has had RC issues in the past and had surgery this past year (6-12 months ago,it's been a while) and has been doing rehab exercises regularly and shoulder has regained full function from what I understand.

I would think cissus(double the standard dose of bulk Super Cissus RX) along with normal dosing of sesamin,glucosamine and celadrin to be adequate in terms of joint protection but the only reservation I have is WRT the cissus.I recall,albeit vaguely,that Lliorh expressed some reservations over cissus but I can't remember as to what they were.Eh,I'll PM him to see what's the haps with that but any thoughts from others on cissus during a cycle (at the very least I know it has a marked effect on T at higher levels but this in itself is redundant considering the T elevation from SD) still,safe better than sorry being the key terminology at hand.

I'd like to have him run an AI but obviously as this will induce drying of the joints that is an inherently flawed idea.Still,some sort of protection against possible gyno and other undesirable sides is what I'm after with this line of thought,any thoughts as alternatives to ATD and the like would be appreciated.

Liver protectants will be sesamin,milk thistle and NAC.I'll have him take garlic and COq10 for heart health as I've got an ample amount of each.He has taken fish oil on the past but it bothered his stomach,hence the ommision.

These 5 will be carried over into PCT but I'm not sure as to what degree must be taken for a SD cycle,as to wether or not 6-OXO is sufficient or toremephine would be called for.I know little of Superdrol,other than that it is a strong steroid and as Pubmed consistently offers fuck all on designer steroids,I can use some help on this.

[rkieltyk]

only word of warning is gyno is VERY possible and probable, having letro on hand would be a must IMO. while using nolvadex for PCT it took me about 2 weeks to get back to normal wrt to anything sexual. I was a machine while on though.

Weight dropped considerably after cessation, probably about 8 lbs of water retention, glycogen whatever.

never noticed any issues with joints though back cramps were very intense around week 2. taurine just gave me the runs and didnt help much. Mg/K+ helped me through the day but I can't recall if it helped me in the gym at all.

[Travis]

Its not likely that he will need an ON cycle AI. Honestly I feel like SD crushes my E levels. Gyno from SD usually rears its ugly head in PCT or even long after (delayed gyno). I'd say having letro around just in case of this would be beneficial. If he really wants to use an AI something like 6-bromo would be a milder alternative. But like I said an AI is not really needed depending on how he reacts to it.

Fwiw, cissus has never really done anything for myself.

[Colin]

Letro is certainly a good idea in itself but what I am looking for is omething that would prevent gyno from occuring in the firedt place,eliminating the need for letro.

I know that transdermal formestane would so this,at least it very well should,but wanted to know if there was an alternative to formestane/aromasin that wasn't so rough on the joints.

He's a freind of mine and the last thing I want to see is him getting gyno as I have it and know first hand that it does indeed suck the swarthiest,sweat laden of balls.I also know he's had RC issues in the past and any possibility of having to resort to a second surgery from a steroidial cycle is inherently fucked.I'm sure that he's rehabbed enough and more than adequate time has passed in order to avoid RC pain from an SD cycle but compounding that will completely eradicate E thereby increasing pain in connective tissue is not desirable.

If he gets some zits or a bit of hair loss as both of which will resolve themselves shortly after the cycle is over,that is acceptable.I won't feel like a dick if only the former takes place but making an efort to help a friend out and inadvertently shafting him with gyno or RC issues isn't cool.

[Archaic]

I've tried superdrol, and I have to say I was not impressed. I had 10mg pill (thats what the label says) and I needed at least 6 per day to notice an effect.

Superdrol is non-aromatizable and therefore an anti-estrogen is not necessary on cycle. Depending on how long the cycle is, you may want to include a small amount of anti-estrogen post cycle to speed HPTA recovery.

[razg]

I think you'd be wise to go with a SERM while on, preferably Raloxifene, and Clomid/Ralox for PCT.

[Travis]

Colin, on Jan 3 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

Letro is certainly a good idea in itself but what I am looking for is omething that would prevent gyno from occuring in the firedt place,eliminating the need for letro.

I know that transdermal formestane would so this,at least it very well should,but wanted to know if there was an alternative to formestane/aromasin that wasn't so rough on the joints.

He's a freind of mine and the last thing I want to see is him getting gyno as I have it and know first hand that it does indeed suck the swarthiest,sweat laden of balls.I also know he's had RC issues in the past and any possibility of having to resort to a second surgery from a steroidial cycle is inherently fucked.I'm sure that he's rehabbed enough and more than adequate time has passed in order to avoid RC pain from an SD cycle but compounding that will completely eradicate E thereby increasing pain in connective tissue is not desirable.

If he gets some zits or a bit of hair loss as both of which will resolve themselves shortly after the cycle is over,that is acceptable.I won't feel like a dick if only the former takes place but making an efort to help a friend out and inadvertently shafting him with gyno or RC issues isn't cool.

6-bromo is a milder AI.

Archaic, on Jan 3 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

I've tried superdrol, and I have to say I was not impressed. I had 10mg pill (thats what the label says) and I needed at least 6 per day to notice an effect.

Superdrol is non-aromatizable and therefore an anti-estrogen is not necessary on cycle. Depending on how long the cycle is, you may want to include a small amount of anti-estrogen post cycle to speed HPTA recovery.

60mg's! Dam man what did your lipids look like after that? Which product did you use? The original or clone? I think a lot of these clones are bunk.

But I agree an AI on cycle is NOT needed with SD. As I posted earlier REBOUND GYNO is the main concern with SD and clones.

razg, on Jan 3 2008, 01:10 PM, said:

I think you'd be wise to go with a SERM while on, preferably Raloxifene, and Clomid/Ralox for PCT.

Yuck, not needed imho.

[Colin]

razg, on Jan 3 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

I think you'd be wise to go with a SERM while on, preferably Raloxifene, and Clomid/Ralox for PCT.

This is what I was hoping would be the ideal way to run the SD.

Dosage will be 10 mg to start,tapering up to 20mg on the 6th day and then 30 on the 11th day with that maintained intil the last 5 days,which will all be at 20mg.It is indeed a clone of the original Designer Supps but it's one of the first clones produced (Anabolic Extreme) and feedback WRT strength gain/nutrient partitioning of this particular clone has been overwhelmingly positive.I'm sure that there are plenty of clones that do not meet the label claims,as was Archaic's expierience.



I'm thinking of 20mg ED of ralox while on.

25-50mg clomid (25mg would be better,at least for avoiding the side of emo'ing out) and 40mg ralox ED for a 4 week PCT,then tapering down the ralox to 20 ED and clomid at 25ED.The high point of clomid being TRT at 25mg ED and I'm thinking of having him run this clomid dose for 10 weeks altogether,might as well as he's 31 (he could use the higher end of normal T elevation,the guy's not 18) and the chance of gyno rebound would be crushed as I understand it.

I'd like to hear what you suggest dosage wise for ralox while on and for the two in PCT.

I trust that you are a good deal more well informed in this area than I.

Other feedback is of course welcome.

[razg]

Travis - This is obviously not ideal, however Colin's main issue here is gyno, so it's better safe than sorry.

Colin - I personally would do something like 60mg Ralox throughout, then 60mg Ralox + 50mg Clomid (both moderate dosages) for PCT. The real problem here is that the delayed gyno on Superdrol appears pretty randomly. If i'm not mistaken, a friend of mine got it something like 6 months down the line; IMO there are better prosteroids.

With regards to the RC, this is obviously training dependent for the most part. If he keeps up his prehab exercises, then there shouldn't be any problems. When it comes to long term shoulder health, another underlooked issue is flexibility of pecs/traps/delts. I've had friends comment on loss of flexibility whilst on cycle, so extra streching may be something worth employing as well.

[Colin]

Thanks for clearing this all up,the price of that much ralox along with the clomid certainly does render a SD somewhat cost prohibitive.

I may very well just post it up on ebay or dump it elsewhere as from the looks of it I'd hardly be doing my friend a favor by giving it to him.

[Travis]

razg, on Jan 3 2008, 07:04 PM, said:

Travis - This is obviously not ideal, however Colin's main issue here is gyno, so it's better safe than sorry.

I disagree. Actually adding an AI on cycle could only cause a bigger E rebound once the user ceases using it. To each his own.

[razg]

Travis, on Jan 4 2008, 01:30 AM, said:

I disagree. Actually adding an AI on cycle could only cause a bigger E rebound once the user ceases using it. To each his own.

I am not proposing use of an AI. What are you referring to?

[Travis]

razg, on Jan 4 2008, 05:42 AM, said:

I am not proposing use of an AI. What are you referring to?

Ahhh, sorry I see that now.

It's still unnecessary to use a SERM imo. Your only introducing an hepatoxic SERM on top of an already well known hepatoxic oral. I think in years of reading/hearing of SD usage I've only seen a few cases of ON cycle gyno (if any). Your better off saving if and when gyno appears down the road.

[avantgarde]

While some users report Gyno from Superdrol this is beyond me as the substance doesn´t convert to estrogen AFAIK.

It should be brutal on his joints for this very eason. I had some joint pain on SD at 30 mgs ED.

Any chance bloodwork could monitor estrogen ?

You could always take replacement dose test and add a SERM to ensure normal levels of estrogen, eg 100 mg test per week + some toremifene (which is less liver toxic than most of the other SERMS and cheap if taken in powder form).

[Colin]

avantgarde, on Jan 4 2008, 07:37 AM, said:

While some users report Gyno from Superdrol this is beyond me as the substance doesn´t convert to estrogen AFAIK.

It should be brutal on his joints for this very eason. I had some joint pain on SD at 30 mgs ED.

Any chance bloodwork could monitor estrogen ?

You could always take replacement dose test and add a SERM to ensure normal levels of estrogen, eg 100 mg test per week + some toremifene (which is less liver toxic than most of the other SERMS and cheap if taken in powder form).

No chance on the bloodwork homes,he won't be running the SD cycle.

I'll get him to buy some Havoc with clomid and CEE for PCT.I don't know if he'll quit drinking alcohol entirely though (highly doubt this) so CEE,Havoc and occasional drinking would be *bad*.Maybe I'll just have him run 6-OXO Extreme and CEE.

At any rate,giving him a bottle of SD for free and then having him spend a couple hundred for preventative measures/PCT would be inherently fucked up.

[Travis]

I've seen blood work from a Havoc cycle in which the user both drank heavily and dosed heavily during an entire 5 week cycle.

Liver values were perfectly fine approximately 25 days into PCT.

Having said that, I'm not advising someone drink and do orals.

[Archaic]

avantgarde, on Jan 4 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

While some users report Gyno from Superdrol this is beyond me as the substance doesn´t convert to estrogen AFAIK.

It should be brutal on his joints for this very eason. I had some joint pain on SD at 30 mgs ED.

Any chance bloodwork could monitor estrogen ?

You could always take replacement dose test and add a SERM to ensure normal levels of estrogen, eg 100 mg test per week + some toremifene (which is less liver toxic than most of the other SERMS and cheap if taken in powder form).

I agree I would highly doubt superdrol has ANY estrogenic effect, in fact considering that it is in essence methylated masteron it would have anti-estrogenic effects in its self, making any SERM or AI use redundant. Masteron itself is sometimes used clinically to treat gyno in elderly men.

I would guess anyone who has had estrogenic side effects from superdrol has gotten a different hormone packaged as superdrol. Perhaps dianabol, which is a cheaper drug than superdrol and I wouldn't put it past sketchy supplement vendors to mix hormones.

[avantgarde]

Quote

Having said that, I'm not advising someone drink and do orals.

Female readers : this does not apply to you. Pay no attention to this statement. Feel free to drink and give orals without any health consequenses.