[el es dee]

would Epi + alb stand up against 75-100mcg of t3? and at what dose? any experience here?

[D-termine]

Standalone T3, versus a shitty anabolic and a pretty decent lipolytic? Seems like the choice is obvious to me? Perhaps you could be more clear in your post and provide a better oriented question.

[el es dee]

D-termine, on Dec 19 2007, 10:12 PM, said:

Standalone T3, versus a shitty anabolic and a pretty decent lipolytic? Seems like the choice is obvious to me? Perhaps you could be more clear in your post and provide a better oriented question.

right, that would be helpful. im interested in the Epi mainly to help with repartitioning/hardening effects. in the past when i was using albuterol, i lost bodyfat steadily but continued to gain weight, so i think it has a fairly significant anabolic effect on me. i know some people do not notice any anabolic effects from albuterol but i do. i gained 10lbs of muscle while leaning out significantly using epi/alb so i think i will be ok in terms of muscle loss. i dont really mind losing some, its pretty inevitable.

I was just looking for some feedback from people who have tried something like this before

[Frangible]

I was very disappointed with T3 personally, but I can't comment on epi + alb.

[Jay Black]

I'll be incorporating this stack in just two weeks time...plus a little extra on top of it, but we'll see what happens...

BTW, don't use T3 without an androgen...

[D-termine]

I've used T3 on a pretty heavy oral cycle before and it still ate away at my muscle, the Epi/Alb cycle however looks far more interesting. Not to mention you've had stellar results from them before.

[el es dee]

D-termine, on Dec 20 2007, 03:44 PM, said:

I've used T3 on a pretty heavy oral cycle before and it still ate away at my muscle, the Epi/Alb cycle however looks far more interesting. Not to mention you've had stellar results from them before.

ill let you know how it goes. last time i used t3 i only used 40mcg in conjunction with albuterol. doing this i gained more lean mass than i lost in fat mass. maybe it just me though

[Jay Black]

el es dee, on Dec 20 2007, 04:49 PM, said:

ill let you know how it goes. last time i used t3 i only used 40mcg in conjunction with albuterol. doing this i gained more lean mass than i lost in fat mass. maybe it just me though

If you're calories (and specifically protein) were kept quite high, then this isn't an oddity at all. Since T3 increases protein turnover/synthesis, it can be beneficial in adding muscle mass faster than without it...as long as the dose isn't excessive. Then adding in oral albuterol, which increases performance in several different ways, you've made yourself a decent stack to actually recomp with (again, as long as calories are kept high[er] and T3 dose isn't excessive).

EDIT: Took too much caffiene this morning, and feeling a bit manic, so I hope this post makes sense and came out the way it was intended.

[el es dee]

Jeff, on Dec 28 2007, 12:02 PM, said:

If you're calories (and specifically protein) were kept quite high, then this isn't an oddity at all. Since T3 increases protein turnover/synthesis, it can be beneficial in adding muscle mass faster than without it...as long as the dose isn't excessive. Then adding in oral albuterol, which increases performance in several different ways, you've made yourself a decent stack to actually recomp with (again, as long as calories are kept high[er] and T3 dose isn't excessive).

EDIT: Took too much caffiene this morning, and feeling a bit manic, so I hope this post makes sense and came out the way it was intended.

no worries, it all made sense. i realized that what you said was true, i just didnt know that the recomping effects of t3 and albuterol would be so profound. my idea is if i take a low dose of Epi while raising t3 to say 75mcg would i still have this great recomp effect?

[Jay Black]

Why not run all three together? That's my plan (with a little test as well to keep the wife happy).

75mcg will be more catabolic, but also will burn more fat. It depends on your goals. My plan is to run Havoc at 40mg ED for 6 weeks, salbutamol 16mg ED first 15 days and PCT, and T3 ramping up from 12.5mcg to probably 50-75mcg (depending on how effective or catabolic each dose is) and back down over the 6 week period, of course, I'm also using test with my Havoc which will help prevent catabolism so I may be able to run it a little higher.

Are you trying to purely cut, recomp, or what's the real end goal here? Then we can help with dosages a little more accurately (assuming your diet/training is in order).

[el es dee]

Jeff, on Dec 31 2007, 04:37 AM, said:

Why not run all three together? That's my plan (with a little test as well to keep the wife happy).

75mcg will be more catabolic, but also will burn more fat. It depends on your goals. My plan is to run Havoc at 40mg ED for 6 weeks, salbutamol 16mg ED first 15 days and PCT, and T3 ramping up from 12.5mcg to probably 50-75mcg (depending on how effective or catabolic each dose is) and back down over the 6 week period, of course, I'm also using test with my Havoc which will help prevent catabolism so I may be able to run it a little higher.

Are you trying to purely cut, recomp, or what's the real end goal here? Then we can help with dosages a little more accurately (assuming your diet/training is in order).

i was planning on using all 3 together. i am trying to purely cut. i was think 16 mg of albuterol split into 4 doses with the addition of 5 mg of yohimbine. 75-100mcg of t3 a day. most likely 75mcg. then on top of that i was thinking of adding in the Epi at 20 or so mg a day for 6 weeks

[Jay Black]

Looks like a good plan, although, I think you should go with 50-75mcg T3 if you're only going to run 20mg Havoc...may want to consider 30mg Havoc for the 6 weeks at 75mcg ED of T3. This of course to prevent too much muscle loss.

[el es dee]

Jeff, on Jan 6 2008, 05:43 PM, said:

Looks like a good plan, although, I think you should go with 50-75mcg T3 if you're only going to run 20mg Havoc...may want to consider 30mg Havoc for the 6 weeks at 75mcg ED of T3. This of course to prevent too much muscle loss.

i will most likely end up at that point anyway. is there a better PH besides havov/epi. i have no problem using them i just figure id ask

[Jay Black]

Oxyguno would probably be your best bet when running high(er) dosed T3...as far as legal androgens go.

[el es dee]

Jeff, on Jan 7 2008, 12:08 PM, said:

Oxyguno would probably be your best bet when running high(er) dosed T3...as far as legal androgens go.

orly at what dose?

[Jay Black]

ya rly

At whatever maximum dose is recommended I would say. Benson used it with great success, and posted somewhere around here about it. Search his name and see what he had to say...might be a more specific answer that you're looking for.