[Sub7]

My Dad is 62 and has very severe sleep apnea. He has tried many solutions over the years but none worked. Finally 3 years ago he had a brain tumor and underwent surgery to have part of it removed. The sleep apnea then came to the brain surgeon's attnetion and he naturally suggested my father do everything possible to get rid of it because not getting enough O2 to the brain during sleep is not a good thing at all for somone in this condition. The brain condition has detoriorated a bit lately and the doc thinks the sleep issue is to blame.

His sleep apnea is very very severe and watching him sleep is quite an experience. He has already lost 25+ lbs and is now ~ at an ideal weight. He is also training himself to sleep on the side -a very hard thing to do after sleeping on your back for over 60 years- and just had a surgery on the nose last week (again to ease breathing). The upper airways, however, are just to narrow (specilist's diagnosis) and I am not sure if the surgery will solve the problem. Sleeping on his back will for sure (when I or my mom used to push him on his side he did breathe almost normally) but I am not sure if the guy, or anyone his age, can manage that.

How would clenbuterol or albuterol work? If he took them the way bodybuilders take it, he could not sleep perhaps and would put his health in jeopardy but if he took it with an inhaler wouldn't it just open up the airways and not really affect overall metabolism so much? Would it then be safe for a 62 year old man? If it works, can he take it for years on end?

Thanks a lot

[Benson]

This is not the medicine you want.

Beta agonists are useful in asthma because they relax bronchial spasm. Sleep apnea, as I understand it, has more to do with trachial issues. AFAIK, there is no medical treatment for sleep apnea.

There are oral devices for sleep apnea that might help...like a retainer they are inserted at night and keep the lower jaw slightly forward to help keep the airway open.

One old trick to prevent snoring might be useful: sew a pocket into the back of his pajamas shirt and put a tennis ball into it...

[Sub7]

Thanks a lot Benson. We are trying the tennis ball solution actually...

Also he will be experimenting with a air compressor as soon as he recovers from the surgery. I tried one of these myself and found it impossible to tolerate. My dad, being the kind of guy he is will likely not be able to sleep with one of these, ever. Well I am not telling him that and hope I am wrong.

On a seperate note, I am not aware of the kind of device you mentioned. That would not be an air compressor I understand. Is there a name by any chance so I can search for it (will be doing a search anyways, but a few keywords may help).

As far as the clen goes: I thought it may help because the doctor told him not to eat for the last 5-6 hours before sleep. He didn't stick to this but 2 weeks before the surgery he got a little ill and couldn't eat for almost the whole day. Amazingly the sleep apnea was practically gone that night. The doc's explanation is a little vague but he basically says that the throat swells up for several hours after a meal (really?). So my rationale was that opening up the airways with clen would help. Don't athletes use it for this purpose even if they do not have asthma? So is there anything (drug or otherwise) that will replicate the effect of not eating before sleep -or may negate the effect of eating before sleep to put it better.

Many Thanks

PS: The strange thing is that not eating for almost the whole day produced this effect but refraining from having food for the last 3-4 hours does not. My dad wasn't being super strict but he was not eating for the last 3-4 hours. Extending this to 5-6 hours or even more will be a challenge in terms of schedule and lifestyle. He will try of course given the seriousness of the situation...

[Benson]

Sub7, on Mar 17 2007, 11:43 PM, said:

Also he will be experimenting with a air compressor as soon as he recovers from the surgery. I tried one of these myself and found it impossible to tolerate. My dad, being the kind of guy he is will likely not be able to sleep with one of these, ever. Well I am not telling him that and hope I am wrong.

I can't imagine sleeping hooked to a CPAP machine which is why I mentioned the mouth appliances, also called mandibular advancement devices.

Here is a start http://www.putanendt.../mouthpiece.htm

Quote

So my rationale was that opening up the airways with clen would help. Don't athletes use it for this purpose even if they do not have asthma? So is there anything (drug or otherwise) that will replicate the effect of not eating before sleep -or may negate the effect of eating before sleep to put it better.

Again, the point of action for clen/albuterol is in the bronchial passageways in the lungs, not in the trachea which is where the restriction lies in apnea. If the problem is improved by food abstinence and is related to swelling/inflamation of the esophagus pushing on the trachea, an anti-inflamatory might help.

[Sub7]

Benson, on Mar 18 2007, 02:52 PM, said:

Again, the point of action for clen/albuterol is in the bronchial passageways in the lungs, not in the trachea which is where the restriction lies in apnea.

Now I got it; was a little slow but now it clicks...

Thanks so much Benson

[liorrh]

Sub7, on Mar 17 2007, 08:43 PM, said:

Thanks a lot Benson. We are trying the tennis ball solution actually...

Also he will be experimenting with a air compressor as soon as he recovers from the surgery. I tried one of these myself and found it impossible to tolerate. My dad, being the kind of guy he is will likely not be able to sleep with one of these, ever. Well I am not telling him that and hope I am wrong.

On a seperate note, I am not aware of the kind of device you mentioned. That would not be an air compressor I understand. Is there a name by any chance so I can search for it (will be doing a search anyways, but a few keywords may help).

As far as the clen goes: I thought it may help because the doctor told him not to eat for the last 5-6 hours before sleep. He didn't stick to this but 2 weeks before the surgery he got a little ill and couldn't eat for almost the whole day. Amazingly the sleep apnea was practically gone that night. The doc's explanation is a little vague but he basically says that the throat swells up for several hours after a meal (really?). So my rationale was that opening up the airways with clen would help. Don't athletes use it for this purpose even if they do not have asthma? So is there anything (drug or otherwise) that will replicate the effect of not eating before sleep -or may negate the effect of eating before sleep to put it better.

Many Thanks

PS: The strange thing is that not eating for almost the whole day produced this effect but refraining from having food for the last 3-4 hours does not. My dad wasn't being super strict but he was not eating for the last 3-4 hours. Extending this to 5-6 hours or even more will be a challenge in terms of schedule and lifestyle. He will try of course given the seriousness of the situation...

intersting. every time I eat before i sleep I get severe sleap apnea