[Eos]

Last time I tried a Pheraplex cycle I had a very serious increase in blood pressure. The headaches and all the other symptoms were killing me even though I had used all anchilary supps I knew of including Red Yeast Rice, Celery Seed, Liver Supps, Vit C and on and on. I also was very careful about my sodium intake and ate very clean but the BP was still tremendous.

Now I am preparing to do a cycle of injectables and will be using either Test E or Tren Ace (I know Test E is a much better choice for a first timer and that is what I will go with if I can find it). Either medication is known to cause a big increase in BP and I am sure supplements will not be enough to solve the BP problem. What would be a good prescription med to handle the BP?

Any other ideas to cope with the BP?

Thanks

[rast4man]

Test E or Tren Ace is apples and oranges. Test is the more ideal injectable, but I've never had high BP on either and I take both religiously. Are you predisposed to high BP? If it becomes that much of a concern, go to your doctor, tell him you're juicing and your BP is becoming a problem and he'll prescribe something for you.

BTW-Were you planning on running Tren Ace solo if you can't score some Test E?

[GhostfaceKillah]

Do you have naturally high blood pressure? A history of high blood pressure in your family? If you did indeed experience a "very serious increase in blood pressure", I suggest you be wary of any AAS. If you insist on androgens, look into ACE inhibitors such as Lisinopril and Enalapril.

[Benson]

If the MOA of AAS induced hypertension is really via an increase in vassopressin, wouldn't a diuretic like HCT make sense?

[SupremeDan]

GhostfaceKillah, on Oct 9 2006, 01:21 PM, said:

Do you have naturally high blood pressure? A history of high blood pressure in your family? If you did indeed experience a "very serious increase in blood pressure", I suggest you be wary of any AAS. If you insist on androgens, look into ACE inhibitors such as Lisinopril and Enalapril.

BUmp on this....use an ace inhibitor

[BIGGUNS101]

Whats your previous AAS usage and as stated above is there family history of BP? If this is your first injectible cycle, test-e or c would be fine , with professional blood pressure monitoring. You dont want to be walking around stressing your body out with AAS induced high blood pressure. Tren is a tough compound, it raises my BP slightly when on, giving me a sort of red glow from time to time.

[Eos]

So far I have only used PheraPlex in terms of AAS but am getting ready to do Test E at 500 -600 mg per week. I have always had somewhat high BP but never high enough to warrant treatment. During Pheraplex use it did go up a lot though. I measured it a few times and wrote down the numbers but cannot recall them off-hand.

As far as Ace inhibitors and diuretics: will either one cause other side effects or possibly inhibit gains? Ace in. are obviously prescription meds. How about diuretics? Is there an OTC diuretic that can help?


Thanks

[abraxas]

Eos, on Oct 10 2006, 11:15 PM, said:

How about diuretics? Is there an OTC diuretic that can help?
Thanks

Bump on sesamin which is said to have a vasodepressing effect.

Some people suggest dandelion root and hawthorn berry, but I haven't read anything too promishing on either of these.

Co-Q10 seems to help a little as does stevia extract (~1 gram a day) and fish oil, all good for 5-10 points individually, though I am not sure how they would combine.

Increased cardio would be about as good as anything I imagine.

[bigj]

maxzide works wonders for me (hydroclorthiazide and triamterene).
Got some clonidine that seems to help quite a bit as well.
It all depends on if you're dealing with a lot of water retention, or if your heart is beating too rapidly (atenolol would be the choice in that case).....
It can be a little confusing. My blood pressure dropped significantly when I cut/trimmed down a lot of fat.
bigj

[Eos]

Some Questions:

- If I ran ACE inhibitors, would they in any way inhibit gains or make the workouts less productive?

- So if diuretics can help, how about some OTC diuretics? Can they be helpful?

- For how long can you use diuretics? If I do a 10 week cycle and have to use diuretics for several weeks on end, would you expect to see any health problems as a result?

- Can diuretics inhibit gains?

Thanks Guys!!!

[Benson]

Eos, on Oct 20 2006, 02:01 PM, said:

- So if diuretics can help, how about some OTC diuretics? Can they be helpful?

- For how long can you use diuretics? If I do a 10 week cycle and have to use diuretics for several weeks on end, would you expect to see any health problems as a result?

In theory, a diuretic should be of great help...the increase in BP is likely due to AAS-induced increase in vasopressin AKA anti-diuretic hormone (ADH) production. The antibiotic demeclocycline would be ideal for this.

That being said, fluid retention and is probably part of the MOA for AAS strength gains.

[Archaic]

Diuretics carry with them a number of side effects, most notably fucking up your blood electolytes, and I have talked to a number of health care professionals who warn against using them period, let alone for the whole length of a long cycle.

I think ACE inhibitors are a good recommendation, they don't inhibit gains and they may be a very healthy thing for your heart and kidneys if you have high blood pressure. They inhibit angiotensin II which causes vasocontriction, and among other things also increases fluid retention to an extent.

[Benson]

Archaic, on Oct 21 2006, 01:09 PM, said:

Diuretics carry with them a number of side effects, most notably fucking up your blood electolytes, and I have talked to a number of health care professionals who warn against using them period, let alone for the whole length of a long cycle.

Low-dose diuretics are now the recomended first-line treatment strategy for essential hypertension.

And while diuretic abuse can certainly be dangerous, in this case, you are looking for something to counteract the fluid retaining effect of the AAS...so the proper dose of diuretic would tend to simply put things back into balance.

[Jay Black]

What diuretics are we talking about here to use ON cycle?

[Benson]

Jeff, on Jan 12 2008, 05:17 AM, said:

What diuretics are we talking about here to use ON cycle?

As stated above, demeclocycline would probably be perfect but OTC Pamabrom or dandelion based "water pill" might work.

[Jay Black]

Woops, missed that apparently.

What about celery extract? We've been discussing it for BP, and it's said to be a diuretic as well...anyone notice that effect? I've been on it several days and haven't noticed any "drying out".

[Benson]

Jeff, on Jan 12 2008, 08:18 AM, said:

What about celery extract? We've been discussing it for BP, and it's said to be a diuretic as well...anyone notice that effect? I've been on it several days and haven't noticed any "drying out".

I wish I could find it but I am fairly certain I read something idicating that celery's MOA was that of a Ca+ channel blocker....not so good for you.

[Jay Black]

From everything I've read, it doesn't work that way whatsoever.

[Benson]

Jeff, on Jan 12 2008, 08:41 AM, said:

From everything I've read, it doesn't work that way whatsoever.

From James Duke's Medical Botany Database:

Celery

Antiarrhythmics: Adenosine; apigenin; apiin; magnesium; potassium; protocatechuic-acid

Calcium Blockers: Apigenin; bergapten (1-520 ppm); isopimpinellin (4-122 ppm); psoralen (0.03-0.15 ppm); xanthotoxin (6-183 ppm)

Diuretic: Adenine; apigenin; apiole; asparagine; caffeic-acid; chlorogenic-acid; glycolic-acid; isopimpinellin (125 ppm); isoquercitrin; luteolin; mannitol; myristicin; terpinen-4-ol (0.1 ml/rat)


So it appears to have multiple MOA but Ca+ channel inhibition is clearly one of them.

[Archaic]

Benson, on Oct 21 2006, 12:37 PM, said:

Low-dose diuretics are now the recomended first-line treatment strategy for essential hypertension.

And while diuretic abuse can certainly be dangerous, in this case, you are looking for something to counteract the fluid retaining effect of the AAS...so the proper dose of diuretic would tend to simply put things back into balance.

I would agree with this statement ONLY in the case they were used under the supervision of a medical professional. Improper diuretic use can really fuck you up. A high level national bodybuilding in my city actually was hospitalized for this exact reason, and now is on permanent dialysis.