[aphelion]

I came across this forum looking for selegiline experiences and stumbled onto this thread. I had seen that website and many others and have tried several therapies to this phenomenon. The most effective has been abstinence.

My situation may be unique in that I do not need a two-week period of abstinence to feel good/confident/affable and waiting that long does nothing for me. I am normally this way but immediately after ejaculation and for about 24 (give or take about 6) hours afterwards I fall into a deep depression. I can orgasm multiple times without ejaculation but have always ended up ejaculating so I can't say for sure which is responsible for the depression. Working out heavily, increasing my calories and sleeping seems to help me cope to some degree but it is really debilitating. I have found over the years that it is best to stay away from social contact during these times.

I have tried several therapies, the first of which was testosterone: I had baseline-low testosterone and started on HRT two years ago. It has not had an effect on the depression, and my doctor referred me to a therapist. The therapist was completely lost but suggested that it may have to do with my partner; however, this has persisted among all the partners I have had since I noticed it.

I have since tried 5-HTP (<600mg), B6 (<800mg) to inhibit prolactin, DMAE (<1g), inositol (typical), St. John's Wort (typical), L-tyrosine (1g) and GABA (2g) all from Puritan's Pride. FWIW I also take a multivitamin/multimineral and 1g vit C and 400IU vit E daily. Have stayed away from SSRI's on advice from a mentor but am considering them now due to their ability to prevent orgasm and therefore ejaculation.

Initially I thought this may be related to my low testosterone but thinking about it now it must be caused by a release of some hormone following ejaculation. Prolactin and progesterone seem like primary contenders but I'm actually pretty clueless. Even if the hormone can't be pinpointed maybe it can be prevented by some other therapy, like the St. John's Wort I tried or the selegiline I was looking into. Any advice would be great.

[trouble]

Please do a google search on under and over methylation. I think you are undermethylated. If you are, you sir, are fucking around with some of the wrong supplements. You are confused on your transsulfuration biochemistry. I recommend you read up on both the methionone/homocysteine and the methylation pathways. Yoour depression can be addressed by lifestyle and supplement recommendations. You need a suite of supplements that work together.

[Proton Soup]

Please do a google search on under and over methylation. I think you are undermethylated. If you are, you sir, are fucking around with some of the wrong supplements. You are confused on your transsulfuration biochemistry. I recommend you read up on both the methionone/homocysteine and the methylation pathways. Yoour depression can be addressed by lifestyle and supplement recommendations. You need a suite of supplements that work together.

and you'd use B6/B12/folic acid to recycle homocysteine, correct? he did mention b6-supplementation crapped out, so what are you suggesting, trouble?

[Squarepusher]

and you'd use B6/B12/folic acid to recycle homocysteine, correct? he did mention b6-supplementation crapped out, so what are you suggesting, trouble?

i think he should avoid those supplements

[aphelion]

Sounds like trouble is suggesting SAMe and methionine to normalize the methyl/folate ratio

[liorrh]

I think she meant SAM-E , selenium for under methylation.

[avantgarde]

Methylation Schmeytlation

Could be true, however :

Orgasm means Prolactin increase which drives down dopamine and this effect can sustain for some time, which would explain your post-sex depression.

So either avoid cumming - that´s not gonna happen huh ?

Or manage your Prolactin by taking Vitex or Bromo or Dostinex.

I would ask a doctor for a blood test before you start messing with supps/drugs to verify this.

If you have high prolactin that would explain the low T and the depression after sex.

You are one blood test away from finding out, then you may pursue Trouble´s high-tech Ninja shit

Oh and I´d stay away from SSRI´s... they increase Prolactin and will only make your problems worse.

EDIT : This route would treat the condition, but as for the underlying cause I belive Trouble is right. Personally though I like a combo of quick fixes and solving underlying problems.

[liorrh]

stop marathon sessions

[aphelion]

liorrh, the duration or frequency (within reason) of sessions has no effect

[Nutropia]

aphelion,

FWIW, I share similar symptoms after orgasm. I would classify it as a restless, empty feeling. I find that I often crave sweets and over indulge in an attempt to try and fill the "empty feeling". I also seem to require and seek out extravagant activities to bring me joy when in this state and don't enjoy subtle activities that I may typically enjoy.

As some other posters have mentioned it does seem that this is either the exhaustion of a particular neurotransmitter/hormone, or the up regulation of one in an attempt at homeostasis.

I have not found a solution, but am interested in your progress.

[Benson]

Methylation Schmeytlation

Could be true, however :

Orgasm means Prolactin increase which drives down dopamine and this effect can sustain for some time, which would explain your post-sex depression.

I'm with you on this one. I suspect the post-ejaculatory prolactin surge and the resulting effects on dopamine levels is the issue here. 500mg/day of Vitex for a couple of weeks will confirm this, or not.

[aphelion]

Please do a google search on under and over methylation. I think you are undermethylated. If you are, you sir, are fucking around with some of the wrong supplements. You are confused on your transsulfuration biochemistry. I recommend you read up on both the methionone/homocysteine and the methylation pathways. Yoour depression can be addressed by lifestyle and supplement recommendations. You need a suite of supplements that work together.

trouble, thank you for your suggestion. I am going to drop all the supplements and try SAMe unless you recommend differently. If it works I will drop it and try methionine due to cost. If it doesn't I will keep it and throw in L-tryptophan/5-HTP and L-tyrosine to attempt to bypass a BH4 deficiency. What lifestyle changes did you mean?

[aphelion]

aphelion,

FWIW, I share similar symptoms after orgasm. I would classify it as a restless, empty feeling. I find that I often crave sweets and over indulge in an attempt to try and fill the "empty feeling". I also seem to require and seek out extravagant activities to bring me joy when in this state and don't enjoy subtle activities that I may typically enjoy.

As some other posters have mentioned it does seem that this is either the exhaustion of a particular neurotransmitter/hormone, or the up regulation of one in an attempt at homeostasis.

I have not found a solution, but am interested in your progress.

Have you tried Vitex or SAMe?

[aphelion]

I'm with you on this one. I suspect the post-ejaculatory prolactin surge and the resulting effects on dopamine levels is the issue here. 500mg/day of Vitex for a couple of weeks will confirm this, or not.

I have read about people trying to use bromo to prevent prolactin release and achieve multiple orgasms but none have succeded. Is this any different?

[Benson]

I have read about people trying to use bromo to prevent prolactin release and achieve multiple orgasms but none have succeded. Is this any different?

Vitex is less potent than bromo in this regard but anecdotal evidence is that it does shorten refractory period.

[D-termine]

I found Im much happier after not nailing fat chicks, but maybe thats just me...

[JimR]

I found Im much happier after not nailing fat chicks, but maybe thats just me...

BUT..are you nailing any other kind of chicks? I like what Woody Allen said about sex...he has some great lines. Google.

[kwun]

Vitex is less potent than bromo in this regard but anecdotal evidence is that it does shorten refractory period.

dear benson,

i'm a newbie and i register as a member mainly because of reading your posts...i really admire your professional knowledge...would you please kindly tell me(briefly) the mechanism for shortening the refractory period...what're the best supplement for shortening

thanks

[aphelion]

About 3 weeks into this stack with no improvement:

multi w/ 400 mcg folic acid and 400 IU vit D
vitex 800 mg
EPA/DHA 600 mg
SAM-e 400 mg
vit C 2 g
vit E 800 IU
vit A 10,000 IU
vit B-12 1000 mcg sublingual
vit B-6 100 mg
(only missing P5P and magnesium from the recommended stack)

Going to add this in a week:

Deprenyl 5mg
P5P 100 mg
DLPA 2 g

Curious about possible interactions and if my dosages are good.

[enemy]

Try ZMA at bedtime.

[Benson]

dear benson,

i'm a newbie and i register as a member mainly because of reading your posts...i really admire your professional knowledge...would you please kindly tell me(briefly) the mechanism for shortening the refractory period...what're the best supplement for shortening

thanks

I missed this one entirely...sorry kwun.

Its very likely that the male refractory period is caused by a post-ejaculatory spike in prolactin. Anecdotal evidence indicates that vitex extract reduces or even eliminates the refractory period in men by reducing prolactin production. Cabergoline and other drugs that lower prolactin will likely have the same effect.

[liorrh]

this is strange. I got this as well. I will post more tomorrow.

[ATB]

About 3 weeks into this stack with no improvement:

multi w/ 400 mcg folic acid and 400 IU vit D
vitex 800 mg
EPA/DHA 600 mg
SAM-e 400 mg
vit C 2 g
vit E 800 IU
vit A 10,000 IU
vit B-12 1000 mcg sublingual
vit B-6 100 mg
(only missing P5P and magnesium from the recommended stack)

Going to add this in a week:

Deprenyl 5mg
P5P 100 mg
DLPA 2 g

Curious about possible interactions and if my dosages are good.

What multi are you taking? I'd up the O3 anyway, and think of seperate folic acid to boost daily intake to 800-1000mcg.

TMG might be good. The suggestion for TMA may be a good one as well.

My stack includes a few other things and theres been a lot of good effects - but its taken years and a lot of fine tuning.

That said, do you have general depression?

[liorrh]

ok this is crasy.

I had an amazing success with my diet and training. no sex or masterbation. than I had sex tuesday, and this saturday twice. after the last sex, I had uncontroallable hunger, lethargy and loss of motivation and fiocus for two straight days. incredible serotonin craving (companionship, computer games, carbs). WTF.

[aphelion]

Anyone else reporting these symptoms on any ACE's, MAOI's, SSRI's or cortisol or prolactin inhibitors? I'd like to narrow the problem down to either a NT issue or a hormone (cortisol/prolactin) release and I just don't have hundreds to spend on self-medicating.

[liorrh]

I was on dep - 5mg once or twice a week ( I think my dose was 3 days prior to the episode which made the episode hapen in the first place - dep makes me horny.

[cbfull]

It could be psychological, but that is another story altogether. If your earliest sexual experiences could be described as less than positive, this is a common symptom that tends to stick around in adulthood.

Just a thought.

[aphelion]

I did attempt talking about with a psychologist (not a psychiatrist) and she suggested that that or the choice of partner may have something to do with it. It's persisted for as long as I can remember and my first sexual experience was not at all negative. This is definitely something powerful, and I feel worse after sex than I do after acute stim abuse.

[sabertooth]

I did attempt talking about with a psychologist (not a psychiatrist) and she suggested that that or the choice of partner may have something to do with it. It's persisted for as long as I can remember and my first sexual experience was not at all negative. This is definitely something powerful, and I feel worse after sex than I do after acute stim abuse.

Did you ever try GHB or Weed? I usually can go for hours with either one of those without ever
losing interest. OTOH, alcohol will do the opposite to me

[kwun]

Its very likely that the male refractory period is caused by a post-ejaculatory spike in prolactin. Anecdotal evidence indicates that vitex extract reduces or even eliminates the refractory period in men by reducing prolactin production[b]. Cabergoline and other drugs that lower prolactin will likely have the same effect.

thank you very much for your help in this...i have started taking vitex for a while...it works...after the first ejaculation(well, to be exact, this first ejaculation was after an almost 2 hours love making session), i can get the second erection very fast

it seems to me that vitex also delay the time for the urge in ejaculation!!! pretty cool! (p.s. before each love making session, i also took 6g argerine, 2g of l-valine, 10mg Yohimbine, 1000mg ginseng, 1000mg cdp-choline in addition to the vitex)...am i right to conclude that these other supplements help me to have strong and long-time erection while vitex helps me to prevent to cum too fast on one hand and on the other hand get a second erection in short time

thanks...my girl is very very happy