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  1. #1
    Senior Member GhostfaceKillah's Avatar
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    Default Trenavar (Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione): A true Trenbolone PH?

    Trenavar (Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione) was released a few weeks ago and is touted as a true prohormone to Trenbolone, differing only by a ketone at the 17 position. Similar to other 17-one prohormones, this ketone is the target of 17b-HSD1, hydrogenating the compound to yield active Trenbolone.

    Information cited in the write-up argues that this compound is orally bioavailable. Tren is known to have a high affinity for the androgen receptor, and also functions as a glucocorticoid receptor antagonist. This is powerful stuff.

    The first logs are just now appearing, so the next few months should reveal quite a bit. Forum member "henryv" has an excellent write-up on Trenavar.

    Thoughts? Reactions?
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    I think one or more of our more active DS/steroid members has been champing at the bit for this stuff. I guess time will tell.

    It's not methylated, so maybe it won't kill me...

  3. #3
    Senior Member GhostfaceKillah's Avatar
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    Please thank henryv for the following, excellent write-up:

    Trenavar


    Nomenclature:

    Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione

    Synonyms:

    Trenavar, Trendione

    History:

    This is a brand new prohormone from PHF/IBE, never seen before on the prohormone or pharmaceutical market.

    Function:

    This is a prohormone to the veterinary drug and black-market bodybuilding steroid trenbolone. Unlike previous "tren" prohormones, this one actually converts in the body to trenbolone. Previous "tren" PHs converted to the structurally similar - but markedly weaker - steroid dienolone.

    Structure:

    This prohormone has the same three conjugated double bonds as trenbolone, and differs from it only in that this hormone has a 17-ketone, where trenbolone has a 17b-hydroxy function. In the body this ketone will be readily hydrolysed by 17b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 5 (17b-HSD5) into the active form, trenbolone.

    Effects:

    Conversion to trenbolone should be high, so effects should be identical to the injectable form - with the exception of the famed "tren cough". Whatever the explanation for "tren cough" (and many have been suggested), since it's a reaction to the sudden parenteral introduction of some compound directly into the body, it's highly unlikely that any orally administered compound will have the same effect.
    Trenbolone is one of the strongest injectable steroids on the market, so effects experienced from Trenavar can be expected to be largely the same - huge strength and size increases, accelerated fat loss, and enhanced vascularity.

    Side Effects:

    Blood pressure is likely to be dose-dependently elevated to a significant degree, cholesterol levels and liver function markers are likely to be adversely affected, though to what extent remains to be seen. Commonly reported trenbolone sides include night-sweats, mood swings, androgenic hair loss and/or growth, temporary loss of libido, as well as the suppression of endogenous testosterone production, and it would be sensible to assume that these may also result from use of Trenavar.

    Metabolism and Bioavailability:

    Warning: if you're not interested in advanced steroid metabolism discussion, skip over this section. If you want solid info on how and why an oral tren PH should work, read on.

    The anabolic effects of trenbolone are due in part to the enhanced androgen receptor binding that the conjugated double bond system causes [1], and also because trenbolone is an antagonist of the glucocorticoid receptor [2]. The double bonds extending up the backbone of the steroid flattens the steroid considerably, which makes it an excellent fit for the androgen receptor. It also makes the molecule much more flexible, and therefore less receptor-specific [3]. Trenbolone is incapable of being affected by 5a-reductase, 5b-reductase, or aromatase. But will it work orally?

    The first place to turn to for information on steroids is the seminal 1969 work Androgens and Anabolic Agents by Julius Vida. Unfortunately this compound isn't among the 666 compounds discussed there, and there's a shortage of information on trenbolone by oral adminstration. I was fortunate enough to find a study which compared the anabolic effects of oral and subcutaneous application of trenbolone in rats [4], and the results were frankly startling. They found that to have a comparable anabolic effect, trenbolone needed to be administered orally at 100 times the dosage as when administered by subcutaneous injection (see graph). Sounds pretty bad for a tren PH then, right? Well, the good news is we're not rats.


    Trenbolone is metabolised differently in different species - in rats, around 40% is excreted as a dione form, as well as several metabolites hydroxylated in various positions [5], but in man only one metabolite has been identified - the 17a-epimer [6].



    The ratio of excreted trenbolone (17b-trenbolone) to epitrenbolone (17a-trenbolone) is estimated at 1:5 in a 24hr period [7].

    What this means is that although Trenavar is a prohormone to trenbolone, it doesn't appear to be a significant metabolite in humans. The equilibrium of the reaction between 17-one and 17b-ol appears to be weighted heavily - in fact pretty much exclusively - in favour of the 17b-ol, so Trenavar should convert readily to the active form trenbolone. Once converted to trenbolone, it will be open to the same metabolism mechanisms as injectable tren - conversion via sulfatase to epitrenbolone and excretion as glucoronides.

    Of course, this is largely conjecture, since neither trenbolone nor a precursor to it has ever been on the supplement market before... or has it?
    A few years ago ALRI released an encapsulated product called "Methoxy TRN", advertised as containing "17b-methoxytrienbolone". This was quickly pulled from the shelves soon after its release, leaving only a few highly-collectable bottles and a reputation for tremendous strength and size gains and roadmap vascularity. This supplement was tested in 2008, and the researchers discovered the tell-tale mass spectra of trenbolone (and no sign of the advertised methoxy group) [8].

    Detection Limits:

    An anti-doping study from 1996 found that orally administered trenbolone was detectable by mass spectrometry for two to four days after a single administration, unlike injectable trenbolone, which is detectable for much longer [9]. The detection of trenbolone after administration of Trenavar is likely to follow similar lines, though detection methods may have improved since then. Athletes subjected to doping tests should of course avoid this and all other prohibited performance-enhancing products altogether.

    Dosages and Cycle Durations:

    Empirical evidence is the only way to determine this; once the product has been used by enough people we'll have a better idea of how much, and for how long, Trenavar is best used.

    References

    [1] Steroids 74 (2009) 172–197
    [2] Acta Endocrinologica, Vol 110, 1 Suppla, S129-S130
    [3] J Steroid Biochem 1979;13:45–59.
    [4] Toxicol Sci. 2002;70:202–211.
    [5] Xenobiotica. 1981 Jul;11(7):489-500.
    [6] Biol. Mass Spectrom. 20 (1991) 459–466.
    [7] Recent advances in doping analysis (2). (1995) 269-274.
    [8] Anal Chim Acta. 2009 Apr 1;637(1-2):92-100.
    [9] Recent advances in doping analysis (3). (1996) 83-94.
    Like short sleeves, I bare arms

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostfaceKillah View Post

    The first logs are just now appearing, so the next few months should reveal quite a bit. Forum member "henryv" has an excellent write-up on Trenavar.

    Thoughts? Reactions?
    Looks like the real deal...too scary for me...
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Senior Member WeightOfWords's Avatar
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    If this pans out I'm stalking up.
    Legal, and less than 100 bucks per 90 caps? Exactly.
    But that's a big IF.
    Ad pondus omnium.
    Visit my log, and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

    I don't wear a seat belt because it chafes my pierced nipples -FMF

    What are you? My steroid accountant? - Ras

    Half of this board is dedicated to steroid use; if you can get away with shaving every 3-4 days, without looking like a homeless person, then you are in dire need of a tren cycle. I don't even use juice, and I still need a secondary shave when I go on a post-work date....
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    Senior Member GhostfaceKillah's Avatar
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    Is it vain to admit the stories of disfigurement resulting from tren-induced cystic acne are the chief reason I'm steering clear of this?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
    Like short sleeves, I bare arms

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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostfaceKillah View Post
    Is it vain to admit the stories of disfigurement resulting from tren-induced cystic acne are the chief reason I'm steering clear of this?
    I'd call that prudent actually.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    So is this different from trenazone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostfaceKillah View Post
    Is it vain to admit the stories of disfigurement resulting from tren-induced cystic acne are the chief reason I'm steering clear of this?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
    I can tell you that Trenazone induces acne in me, and I have very acne-resistant skin.

  10. #10
    Product Rep Travis's Avatar
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    Trenazone is a different compound (dienelone), although reportedly acts similar.

  11. #11
    Senior Member WeightOfWords's Avatar
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    GaWd, does the stuff work?
    Ad pondus omnium.
    Visit my log, and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

    I don't wear a seat belt because it chafes my pierced nipples -FMF

    What are you? My steroid accountant? - Ras

    Half of this board is dedicated to steroid use; if you can get away with shaving every 3-4 days, without looking like a homeless person, then you are in dire need of a tren cycle. I don't even use juice, and I still need a secondary shave when I go on a post-work date....
    - Section8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis View Post
    Trenazone is a different compound (dienelone), although reportedly acts similar.
    Understood, Travis. Though Dienolone is what the old Tren PHs convert to, right?

  13. #13
    Product Rep Travis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaWd View Post
    Understood, Travis. Though Dienolone is what the old Tren PHs convert to, right?
    Yeah, and whoever thought of calling pro-dienelone tren was an asshole lol.

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    It is extremely confusing...

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    Senior Member keninishna's Avatar
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    i just hope the dosing is right. I mean normal tren ace dose is what? 75mg eod. Thats about 37mg/day. This stuff at 3 pills a day = 45mg and who knows the conversion ratio to real tren? I'm not sure how heavy the acetate ester is either.

  16. #16
    Senior Member GhostfaceKillah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keninishna View Post
    i just hope the dosing is right. I mean normal tren ace dose is what? 75mg eod. Thats about 37mg/day. This stuff at 3 pills a day = 45mg and who knows the conversion ratio to real tren? I'm not sure how heavy the acetate ester is either.
    Molecular mass of Trenbolone is about 270 g/mol, while the molecular mass of a typical Tren Acetate ester (enanthate) is about 130 g/mol. So if you are taking Tren Ace, about 2/3 of the dose (by mass) is Trenbolone.
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    Senior Member keninishna's Avatar
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    ok so about 25mg tren a day. Just have to hope this stuff has around 50% conversion so it looks pretty well dosed so far.

  18. #18
    Senior Member WeightOfWords's Avatar
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    I'd need 9 pills a day basically.
    Ad pondus omnium.
    Visit my log, and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

    I don't wear a seat belt because it chafes my pierced nipples -FMF

    What are you? My steroid accountant? - Ras

    Half of this board is dedicated to steroid use; if you can get away with shaving every 3-4 days, without looking like a homeless person, then you are in dire need of a tren cycle. I don't even use juice, and I still need a secondary shave when I go on a post-work date....
    - Section8

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  19. #19
    Senior Member GhostfaceKillah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeightOfWords View Post
    I'd need 9 pills a day basically.
    Based on what I have seen, I'm sure the internet bodybuilding community would be excited to hear your results, as this would almost certainly set the bar for maximum dosage.
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    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostfaceKillah View Post
    Is it vain to admit the stories of disfigurement resulting from tren-induced cystic acne are the chief reason I'm steering clear of this?...
    Quote Originally Posted by GaWd View Post
    I can tell you that Trenazone induces acne in me, and I have very acne-resistant skin.
    I presume you are referring to acne from trenazone rather than trenbolone per se. Acne from tren itself is not a major issue when compared to the other AAS IME [n>1].

    The biggest problem with tren IMO are: heartburn/reflux, mood shifts and sleep disruption. The heartburn can be fixed through stacking, and the mood shifts can be partially offset by frequent 5HTP use IME. Sleep disruption is currently an open problem for me.

    J
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