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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Question Ways to increase creatinine and SG levels in urine

    ...and is this what is used to determine specific gravity?

    Obviously this is for a UA question. Some of you may know I have undergo random testing. While I am being as good as I can, UA's scare me. The new EtoH test for Etg metabolites will trigger a false positive from using average doses of purell, yet it's enough to get me thrown in jail (even the tests inventor disputes it's validity to prove EtoH consumption)

    ....anyway, I had a UA two weeks ago, I was a good boy and passed like I thought. Well it was just brought to my attention that it tested as diluted, I took another test (this one not a lab send out) and passed and court 4 days later.

    Before the test I had drank four tall glasses of water and took a Vit B complex. In the days before, if I remember correctly I had also loaded up on creatine, thinking it converts to creatinine and makes the specific gravity passable.

    On some secondary research I am finding that Creatine does (or does a poor job at it) not convert well into urine creatinine levels.

    So what gives, how can I make sure my samples are ok and not diluted while still being able to drink a normal/safe amount? I am wayyyy too paranoid to trust this lab. They already fucked up once and I went to jail.

    Any thoughts M&M?

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    Senior Member shamus's Avatar
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    Off the top of my head, creatine in an aqueous solution + heat + time will convert it to creatinine?

    Assuming it doesn't get metabolised again, that may be your best bet.

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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamus View Post
    Off the top of my head, creatine in an aqueous solution + heat + time will convert it to creatinine?

    Assuming it doesn't get metabolised again, that may be your best bet.
    I'm a bit confused. Do you mean just imbibe creatine monohydrate and let the contents of your stomach make the coversion?

    Or are you talking dumping it in the sample (which is observed but I might be able to get it alone)?

    Does anyone have any info on conversion times and rates for oral CM to urine creatinine by any chance? Pubmed didn't seem to answer my question..When an how much creatine do I need for it to make my sample non dilute.

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    You will increase creatinine by doing a heavy workout the night before.

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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    You will increase creatinine by doing a heavy workout the night before.

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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benson View Post

    Thanks for the link, it's confirmed my fears unfortunately.

    In conclusion, these data suggest that oral creatine supplementation administered at recommended daily doses does not influence routinely used urine integrity tests.
    So could this possibly imply that higher than recommended doses could possibly work. I'd give it a shot but I don't want to shit my brains out with CM. And what form of creatine was this, I missed it?

    As mentioned above does CEE really help convert into creatinine in urine if not CM?

    That study also mentions creatinine being released by muscle contractions, not sure if it makes it to urine, but I will be doing some heavy work the night before the test (which is counterproductive now knowing I have fat soluble metabolites of jwh waiting to be released by exercise).

    I will figure this out. Apparently Gatorade and salt and tums and all the shit I've read and had been sworn works still comes back as dilute. I just tried all that for my last lab (would have been clean anyway, I'm just testing). So we will see.

    I'm thinking you HAVE to nail both the creatinine and the SG or it will flag, so maybe these people missed part of the puzzle.

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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutchbb View Post
    Did I miss something IRT this study? I speed read it but only concluded that it was PLASMA levels, not urine. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I will go grab some CEE if it does a better job at showing up as creatinine. For some reason I doubt it though....

    What about adding creatine to the sample as mentioned about, it's warm and I'm assuming urine is an aqueos solution? I don't see it affecting pH, and I ONLY think it could help with SG, as that is just a measurement of the particles vs the water in your piss.

    I would have NO IDEA how much to add though. It's also very risky. But it might kill two birds with one stone..

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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by habit View Post
    That study also mentions creatinine being released by muscle contractions, not sure if it makes it to urine
    Heavy resistance exercise will tend to increase urine creatinine levels but won't generally push them out of accepted "normal" lab ranges.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benson View Post
    Heavy resistance exercise will tend to increase urine creatinine levels but won't generally push them out of accepted "normal" lab ranges.
    Well, here is the dilemma for me. I don't want them out of accetable ranges obviously, I just need them high enough to fall within acceptable parameters for the lab so my sample doesn't get flagged.

    I'm anticipating a problem with that anyway though, as if your going for a dilution of anything that might be found in your urine, you are obviously going to dilute your creatinine as well, I assume.

    So maybe I am looking for something that will push it very high so when I start drinking water it still will come out normal on an assay. I can find out whatever method, if one exists for this, to time it right for the test as the validity UA strips are about a dollar each and they check for creatinine and SG.

    Hmmmmmm, I hate losing so I am not giving up on this yet. It's not about being able to fool bladder cops, it's more a science experiment now. I don't even have anything other than fake weed in me now anyway (which scares me from resistance exercise tonight as I might have a random tomorrow at i don't want it released from fat).

    What about CEE and urine, NOT plasma.

    Other forms of creatine?

    Actually adding creatine to the sample (this one is possibly way too tricky for some of my tests)?

    There has to be a way.....

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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by habit View Post
    Did I miss something IRT this study? I speed read it but only concluded that it was PLASMA levels, not urine. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I will go grab some CEE if it does a better job at showing up as creatinine. For some reason I doubt it though....

    What about adding creatine to the sample as mentioned about, it's warm and I'm assuming urine is an aqueos solution? I don't see it affecting pH, and I ONLY think it could help with SG, as that is just a measurement of the particles vs the water in your piss.

    I would have NO IDEA how much to add though. It's also very risky. But it might kill two birds with one stone..
    The study indeed only referes to plasma creatinine but it's pretty plausible that urine creatinine levels should be elevated too. Since creatinine is a biomarker for (impaired) kidney function higher plasma levels correlate with lower urine creatinine levels in case of impaired kidney function. (less creatinine is released by urine).

    In the case of CEE supplementation, serum creatinine levels triple and it only makes sense that that creatinine will ultimately be excreted through your urine (in case of normal kidney function). While it's unfortunate they didn't measure urine creatinine levels, I see no way why, in this case, serum and urine creatinine wouldn't correlate with each other.

    I don't think adding creatine to your urine is a good idea at all. Creatine monohydrate is pretty stable and if you're going to do it you should be very sure what dose you're going to need. I believe even with the correct data and mathematics is going to be pretty hard to calculate that dose and if they catch you with a non-physiological amount of creatinine in your urine you have some real explaining to do....

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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    I used one before but they check for that too now. I think I actually had the "urinator" but they have checks at the drug court for these things, like pissing sideways or looking directly at your dick with a two way mirror. It's gross.

    Tom Sizemore violated probation using one because his PO said he new it was a fake penis "by the way the light gleamed off it". Exact words. Where is the barf icon :barf

    And thanks dutch, might pick some of that nasty tasting CEE up and give it a go with test strip. Your logic sounds reasonable but I have a feeling it probably won't work. I think somewhere through digestive tract and kidneys something is going on that could care less about oral supplementation, but we'll see

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    The piss cops are testing for creatinine, which is the METABOLITE of creatine. Adding creatine will not increase the creatinine level in urine. I was wondering if there was some way to synthesize creatinine & then add a minute amount of a highly concentrated creatinine solution to ur specimen bottle right before u leak into it. UPDATED: The water solubility of creatinine in its raw crystalline form is only 1 in 12. This means that it is physically impossible to create a 'highly concentrated' solution of creatinine. Ur best bet would be to make a little bit of raw creatinine and put it into a small vial and tape it to the inside of ur underwear or pants and take it into the testing room with you. Testing personnel will sometimes ask to see what is in ur pockets so you have to be careful. Add the creatinine to the sample cup before you pee in it. I was also wondering if there was some type of inert heavy metal powder you could add to ur sample to bump up the SG.

    I'm really not a master chemist by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems that one starting pt might b 2 replicate the digestive chemical process that occurs when someone eats a creatine supplement. I looked @ a handful of articles (VERY technical) on creatinine synthesis & one of them said something about reacting creatine with hydrochloric acid, which is exactly what happens in ur stomach.

    Is there anyone out there (like a biochemist/toxicologist) who might know how to synthesize creatinine, possibly from raw creatine?

    "It is better 2 ask some of the questions than 2 know all the answers." - James Thurber
    Last edited by GEEKMAN; January 28th, 2013 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Encountered information on physical properties of creatinine

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    I don't think you're going to beat these tests 100% of the time regardless of what you do and don't they save the samples as evidence? While it can be done it can't be guaranteed so you have to ask yourself if a failed test is worth it for you. If it's not just wait out the probation, it's the best way tbh.

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    Performing comprehensive chemistry testing on urine samples is prohibitively expensive, the piss cops r under pressure 2 keep the cost of the testing process 2 a minimum. I'm gng 2 keep doing some research on it, u can find a lot of meth recipes but I'm not into selling death. If ur using mj it helps 2 keep yrself as skinny & muscular as possible because the thc metabolites r fat soluble.

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    U would also need to ensure that yr highly concentrated creatinine solution has the right pH so that it wouldn't be flagged as an 'adulterant' after all it's something that will raise a red flag if they don't find enuf of it. At first blush it would seem that a neutral pH of 7 would be best. I was wondering if there was also some kind of heavy but non chemically reactive substance we could add 2 the creatinine concentrate that would kick up the sg just enuf 2 put it above the cutoff threshold which I think is 1.003.

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    No red flags is the best way 2 go. I have a feeling this may get a little bit mathematical because I would want 2 put the measured creatinine amt within the expected range with the intent of being maximally crafty. If I have 2 do any math it would likely not be any more involved than basic quantitative chemical calculations, it isn't advanced calculus. I'll just try 2 present results in a simple easy 2 understand way. U realize that varying body weights can cause varying results. Keep yrself as thin as possible, but do NOT starve yrself.

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    When I said "comprehensive chemistry testing" I mean something like the mass spectrometer/gas chromatography test. Chromatography involves separation of mixtures into individual compounds present, & spectrometry involves detection of those compounds. This is a sophisticated & EXPEN$IVE test. One thing the testing companies don't want u 2 know is how much pressure they're under 2 keep costs 2 a minimum.

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