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Thread: follistatin 344

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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Default follistatin 344

    So I ran two back to back 1mg trials of follistatin 344, designed to inhibit myostatin.

    While there's no way for me to say I know for sure that it did just that(inhibit myostatin), I can say that this was one of the first times I was actually blown away by a product in this category (peptides etc.)

    I gained about 7 pounds in two weeks and I've never looked leaner. Not to say I think it's all new muscle fiber, some of this is definitely sarcoplasmic fluid retention. But I look almost leaner than when I started and the scale went from 213 to 220 in two weeks. I have been eating big, but that's been the case for at least a month prior to trying this. I have been using Tren E and Test E, I'm not going to hide that fact. But I will say I got down to a cruising dose because returns have fallen and I didn't want to come off just yet. So in other words, the gains I could have been getting from that combo have long since subsided when I ran this trial.

    The unique thing about this trial is that i was using it only in my bis and tris. On a couple of occasions I noticed a pump that lasted all day. On one particular day I only shot my left arm. That left arm was markedly pumped throughout the rest of the day, it felt like it had syntherol in it or something, just solid as a rock. I've done the same thing with every single IGF product on the market, several times over hoping to bring up my left arm which is slacking. But this was truly a unique effect.

    I normally don't spend a lot of time focused on my "guns" but because of this special investigation I decided to set aside a few times a week to just work on those parts.


    Like I said, I have used all IGF products, GH, AAS. Nothing ever gave me a pump like I was getting from this. I couldn't hardly pull my earphones out of my ears.

    Anyways, I ran out this week and I'm going to see if there's a residual inhibition of myostatin that continues onward. We shall see.

    I will say my tendons did start to get a little achey and that is a side effect of inhibition, so I didn't push the weight, but instead worked on slow movements, extra reps etc.

    Overall would I buy it again? Absolutely. But I think the price is out of reach for a regular use thing. I think this would be best used in the middle of a long AAS cycle to rejuvenate the gains. After all AAS has been shown to first reduce myostatin but then after a few weeks myostatin snaps up high and the gains start diminishing. Run a weeklong trial of this and you'll see those kind of virgin gains (even though I know a good portion is water) all over again.

    My only complaint is price. I imagine if more and more places begin to offer this compound, there will be a price war and we might see it break into the 75 dollar range. I got in on it when it was just 120 per mg. It's now up to 199. Way too much to spend in my opinion, until we see if long term results come from this.

    I think it definitely has a lot of potential as a quarterly booster, every three months run a mg. If someone could afford to run it one week out of each month for a year, I think we'd see some miraculous results.

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    Product Rep mich29's Avatar
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    very interesting post here


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    Senior Member dickdeandestructo's Avatar
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    me like. Im looking in to IGF LR3 atm. Wonder if this would be good for stacking with other peptides
    Where else but here can you get expert advice on diet, training, psychopharmacology, online dating and IEDs all in one spot?

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    BOOM Chicka Wah Wah
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    Wanna help make the wiki page for this?

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/wiki/in...ollistatin_344

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    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Good post E!

    What dose specifically were you running it at? Was this per bi or total dose?

    Did you notice any lethargy or fatigue whilst on?

    Did your androgens stop at the same point as stopping the Fol? If not are you still running them, If you did stop them at the same point, what PCT are you running?

    On the points wrt myostatin rebound, fol does have some non myostatin mediated effects on hypertrophy. Another point IIRC although there was a short term rebound / insensitivity of myostatin suppression by androgens, myostatin was again suppressed about after 20 weeks of exog androgen use. I do wonder what the effect of a long term andro use, along with long term fol use eg( 6mn+ ).

    I am very interested in your upcoming reports on residual effect, especially on growth, fatigue, hunger, tendons, pump at rest and during workouts.

    I have been in multiple minds regarding fol/myostat play - there were some problems with quality of fol fragments on the bodybuilding market, resulting in unexpected effects/sides. This was however balanced by the temping potential goals. I may look at scheduling this in for my autumn / winter phase.

    Thanks a lot buddy.
    J
    Stop animal testing on dogs!

    Anti-vivisectionists are a more reliable model.


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    Fascinating post E! I saw this offered at EP but wasn't even sure what it was, haha.
    "It is absurd for the evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that its more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything" - G.K. Chesterton

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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Good post E!

    What dose specifically were you running it at? Was this per bi or total dose?
    My first week I ran 150mcg the first two days (apprx 75mcg in each arm) and then I ran 100mcg, 50mcg in each arm. I ended up with a little bit left over so I must have added just a bit more bac water.

    The second week I only had five days to run it because I was leaving town end of week. I ran it 200mcg a day, 150 in my left and 50 in my right. I always hit bis and tris.


    Did you notice any lethargy or fatigue whilst on?
    Not sure. I was completely beat after teaching my bootcamp class (high intensity, low weight movements with as little rest as possible). But I was expecting to be beat because I hadn't trained like that in a while.


    Did your androgens stop at the same point as stopping the Fol? If not are you still running them, If you did stop them at the same point, what PCT are you running?
    I am still running the androgens for at least a few more weeks, because I don't want to pull that out from underneath me during this phase of post-folli. I want to keep all variables constant for a few more weeks.


    On the points wrt myostatin rebound, fol does have some non myostatin mediated effects on hypertrophy. Another point IIRC although there was a short term rebound / insensitivity of myostatin suppression by androgens, myostatin was again suppressed about after 20 weeks of exog androgen use. I do wonder what the effect of a long term andro use, along with long term fol use eg( 6mn+ ).
    I didn't know about the myo inhibition coming after 20 weeks. Interesting.

    I have been in multiple minds regarding fol/myostat play - there were some problems with quality of fol fragments on the bodybuilding market, resulting in unexpected effects/sides. This was however balanced by the temping potential goals. I may look at scheduling this in for my autumn / winter phase.
    While I can't speak for results based on the old folli, I can say that this stuff didn't have any of the sides people were reporting about that first run.

    I will also say that the original batch was folli315 rather than 344, so it was an incomplete sequence. Plus it still had what is called a tag on it, which leads to irritation at the site, nausea. This new stuff has done nothing of the sort.

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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Wanna help make the wiki page for this?

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/wiki/in...ollistatin_344
    Sure! Give me a few days here, got a lot on my plate atm.

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    Gentlemen,
    Can someone please clarify the effects -to the extent known- of myostatin inhibition on connective tissue? Does inhibiting myostatin directly weaken tendons and ligaments? Or is any potential connective tissue issues merely due to rapid strength gains?

    Any other long-term issues this can lead to?

    Thanks
    A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he is not in love with her...
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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Gentlemen,
    Can someone please clarify the effects -to the extent known- of myostatin inhibition on connective tissue? Does inhibiting myostatin directly weaken tendons and ligaments? Or is any potential connective tissue issues merely due to rapid strength gains?

    Any other long-term issues this can lead to?

    Thanks

    this might be of use Tendons of Myostatin-Deficient Mice Are Small, Brittle, and Hypocellular
    Last edited by Josh; June 21st, 2011 at 12:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eclypz View Post
    That is not good news
    any way to overcome this issue, so that one doesn't end up with ruptured tendons...?
    A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he is not in love with her...
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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    That is not good news
    any way to overcome this issue, so that one doesn't end up with ruptured tendons...?
    Certainly. Use it only periodically and train with a style that doesn't overstress the tendons. Think higher reps, less weight.

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    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclypz View Post
    Certainly. Use it only periodically and train with a style that doesn't overstress the tendons. Think higher reps, less weight.
    That sort of training could be quite easily cycled in too. Lots of lads use preworkout slin with lower load, high volume training just to get the blood and nutrients flowing for a few months, before moving onto a load progression phase.

    J
    Stop animal testing on dogs!

    Anti-vivisectionists are a more reliable model.


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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    That sort of training could be quite easily cycled in too. Lots of lads use preworkout slin with lower load, high volume training just to get the blood and nutrients flowing for a few months, before moving onto a load progression phase.

    J
    I've actually been quite suprised at the amount of bodybuilders who use a 12-15 rep scheme to build muscle, versus the prevailing attitude here which is heavy and 4-8 reps. Phrases like "train for the pump" are echoed by what appear to be some very physically advanced bodybuilders. It would only make sense to utilize something like this from time to time, especially if you are genetically prone to having more type 1 fibers. Train the muscle you have, I suppose. Just because they're not as prone to hypertrophy doesn't mean they won't grow.

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    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclypz View Post
    I've actually been quite suprised at the amount of bodybuilders who use a 12-15 rep scheme to build muscle, versus the prevailing attitude here which is heavy and 4-8 reps. Phrases like "train for the pump" are echoed by what appear to be some very physically advanced bodybuilders. It would only make sense to utilize something like this from time to time, especially if you are genetically prone to having more type 1 fibers. Train the muscle you have, I suppose. Just because they're not as prone to hypertrophy doesn't mean they won't grow.
    I agree. I'm an advocate of "No fibre left behind" approach when it comes t to hypertrophy . I suspect that many of the members here are aiming for a more function strength component than pure aesthetics.

    Apart from the need to stim all fibres for max growth IMO, there are some other benefits from increased blood/nutrient flow which is particularly important with preworkout slin.

    J
    Stop animal testing on dogs!

    Anti-vivisectionists are a more reliable model.


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    Senior Member Supnut's Avatar
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    I stopped following myostatin info years ago so this is all news and very interesting to me.

    Does inhibition actually stimulate growth or does it just increase overall potential for growth? Meaning, if we give it to an untrained individualize would there be any point, or is this only going to work on someone that's hit their plateau .
    <span style='font-family:Optima'><span style='color:blue'>Creation is a machine</span></span>

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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supnut View Post
    I stopped following myostatin info years ago so this is all news and very interesting to me.

    Does inhibition actually stimulate growth or does it just increase overall potential for growth? Meaning, if we give it to an untrained individualize would there be any point, or is this only going to work on someone that's hit their plateau .

    I think at the doses we're dealing with, and the short duration we're using it (both to keep cost down as well as minimize sides) we're only going to see impressive results in people who have been training for a while now and have hit a plateau.

    If money were no object, and/or the price went way down because of competition, then an untrained individual could take it daily for a year and really pack on some mass, provided he didn't end up hurting himself because of the weakened tendon strength.

    After all, even growth hormone causes a pretty significant drop in myostatin so this is something that's already being manipulated, just never before so specifically.

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    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    After all, even growth hormone causes a pretty significant drop in myostatin so this is something that's already being manipulated, just never before so specifically.
    It is worth noting too that fol increases growth even through non-myostatin pathways. When fol was administered to myo null mice it caused additional growth. I would expect that fol would have additional effects ontop of the myostat supression of agents such as GH & androgens.

    Quite what the best way of running this ie( in what stack ), I am not sure.

    I must admit that you have brought something very interesting to the table Eclypz. I have heard all sorts of reports, and although there are a handful of people whose claims I have trust in, there are so many shills out there - PM was full of them at one point. I appreciate you posting your findings, as I do hold your observations in high regards.

    Cheers bud,
    J
    Stop animal testing on dogs!

    Anti-vivisectionists are a more reliable model.


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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    I must admit that you have brought something very interesting to the table Eclypz. I have heard all sorts of reports, and although there are a handful of people whose claims I have trust in, there are so many shills out there - PM was full of them at one point. I appreciate you posting your findings, as I do hold your observations in high regards.

    Cheers bud,
    J
    PM wreaks of buds and bros of the people selling this stuff. It's gross. I didnt have the kind of muscle mag experience that some of their members claim to have had. "Just watch out dude, the hunger is going to blow you awaaaay!!!!". "14 pounds in 24 days bro!!!" Are some of my favorites.

    If anyone questions it, there's usually a rush to defend even though there's nothing to defend, just a few people asking questions.

    With that said I was very sceptical myself. I'm still not sold on it in a long term sense. I think it's way overpriced for how much someone would have to use long-term to get the kind of results they want, especially without AAS or GH.

    But 100 a month isn't outrageous if you consider all the money you've wasted on other stuff that ended up not panning out to any degree. It's up to 200 but I think that's just sellers being greedy because they have a corner on the market. If word got out and other reputable sources surfaced I think we'd see a quick drop. Hehehe, wish 1fast was in the peptide business, LOL.

    Ayways, If I had the money I would probably run one week a month for a year and then we'd have a really definitive answer on whether or not this stuff is worth it.

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    Senior Member Josh's Avatar
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    I am waiting to find out a price from my pep guy over here. He often can get some real cracking prices that are well below the market rate. He already told me that he has got myostat propep & some of the fol fragments coming online from this summer. If the price is reasonable, then I may schedule it in for the fall/winter. I would be keen on seeing the results from a 6mn straight run myself. I think that the protocols for this stuff are all up in the air, we could do with qa few different approaches to hone in on the optimum.

    J
    Stop animal testing on dogs!

    Anti-vivisectionists are a more reliable model.


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