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  1. #1
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    Everything I'm reading online states l-theanine increases GABA and dopamine but decreases serotonin, so theoretically with st. johns wort raising serotonin it can be synergistic?



    I also got niacinimide and inositol. What does everyone here think of that stack? st. johns wort + theanine + inositol + niacinimide?



    *It's for a friend of mine. I recommended inositol for her OCD and she said it helped @ 12 G / day. I also recommended st. johns wort. She ran out of inositol and was just taking st. johns wort and said after she stopped the inositol she felt amazing. She said it was like inositol was suppressing the positive feeling of st. johns wort. So, I know there shouldn't be any serious interactions in combination, but would there be an interaction/downregulation in such a way where it would negate a positive feeling of one of the supps?

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    Senior Member adreno's Avatar
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    Personally I feel quite anhedonic on inositol. I don't know the exact mechanism, but I guess that's why it's effective in Bipolar Disorder. It just seems to flatten affection.

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    Senior Member Ex Dubio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j03 View Post
    Everything I'm reading online states l-theanine increases GABA and dopamine but decreases serotonin, so theoretically with st. johns wort raising serotonin it can be synergistic?


    Sigh... Check your sources. It hasn't been studied thoroughly enough to make conclusions like this. Moreover, the supplement is so weak in comparison to pharmacological DA/GABA modulators, that I'm not sure how relevant its precise neurochemical effects are.




    I also got niacinimide and inositol. What does everyone here think of that stack? st. johns wort + theanine + inositol + niacinimide?


    I'd say if you're taking < 3-6g of inositiol, that stack will have identical effects to just taking SJW. If you're taking 3-6g inositol or more, it will have identical effects to taking SJW with the addition of some added anxiolysis and, of course, some added diarrhea.




    *It's for a friend of mine. I recommended inositol for her OCD and she said it helped @ 12 G / day. I also recommended st. johns wort. She ran out of inositol and was just taking st. johns wort and said after she stopped the inositol she felt amazing. She said it was like inositol was suppressing the positive feeling of st. johns wort. So, I know there shouldn't be any serious interactions in combination, but would there be an interaction/downregulation in such a way where it would negate a positive feeling of one of the supps?


    Right, because of the compounds mentioned here, only inositol and SJW have evidence. One of the mechanisms of action of SJW is 5-HT2A upregulation, which likely plays a significant role in the drug's therapeutic effects. At least part of inositol's effects are mediated by 5-HT2A downregulation, so yes you'd expect some interaction.



    EDIT: And to be clear, 5-HT2A antagonism is precisely what atypical antipsychotics accomplish. So yes, you'd expect it to flatten affect a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Dubio View Post
    Sigh... Check your sources. It hasn't been studied thoroughly enough to make conclusions like this. Moreover, the supplement is so weak in comparison to pharmacological DA/GABA modulators, that I'm not sure how relevant its precise neurochemical effects are.







    I'd say if you're taking < 3-6g of inositiol, that stack will have identical effects to just taking SJW. If you're taking 3-6g inositol or more, it will have identical effects to taking SJW with the addition of some added anxiolysis and, of course, some added diarrhea.







    Right, because of the compounds mentioned here, only inositol and SJW have evidence. One of the mechanisms of action of SJW is 5-HT2A upregulation, which likely plays a significant role in the drug's therapeutic effects. At least part of inositol's effects are mediated by 5-HT2A downregulation, so yes you'd expect some interaction.



    EDIT: And to be clear, 5-HT2A antagonism is precisely what atypical antipsychotics accomplish. So yes, you'd expect it to flatten affect a bit.


    That makes sense. But l-theanine has been proven to boost alpha brain waves promoting relaxation, which is beneficial for OCD and anxiety. I can also say empirically it had a similar physiological effect as benzos, although not nearly as strong at the dosages i was taking, which wasn't much btw. It promotes an alert relaxation. I don't know what it would feel like in combination with st. john's wort. Does anyone have any experiences?



    Would niacinimide and st. john's wort be a better combination than st. john's wort and l-theanine?

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    Senior Member MeDieViL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j03 View Post
    boost alpha brain waves promoting relaxation, which is beneficial for OCD and anxiety.
    Proof?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeDieViL View Post
    Proof?


    You can Google hundreds of sources. Here's a few:



    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2234172

    "A dose of oral administration of 200 mg of L-theanine dissolved in 100 ml of water resulted in the generation of α-electric waves in the occipital and parietal regions of the brains of the subjects. The emission intensity of α-brain waves (integrated as a function of investigation times and area) was significantly greater in the group of Grade I than that of Grade V. These results indicate the possibility for L-theanine to be applied to foods and beverages as a new type of functional food ingredient for its relaxation effect."



    http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/apjc...67-168S8-4.pdf



    "We found a significant reduction in tonic alpha for the l-theanine treatment compared to placebo, which was accompanied by a shift in scalp topography, indicative of treatment-related changes in the neural generators of oscillatory alpha activity."



    http://www.springerlink.com/content/p56t443l21365vgk/



    "A review study on L-theanine in Trends in Food Science and Technology in 1999 confirmed how L-theanine works. The study reported that the brain absorbs L-theanine within 30 minutes and that higher doses increase alpha wave production and relaxation."



    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_92283902/

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    Senior Member MeDieViL's Avatar
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    Yes it does appear to generate those waves, but where's the evidence they are helpfull for OCD and anxiety? (could be there, dunno, would like to see some tough).
    Prophet currently looking for a new job

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    Senior Member MeDieViL's Avatar
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    A mate of me is electrocuting himself with "alpha stim" or whatever that crap is called, its supposed to stimulate "alpha waves" too, but meh, as long the placebo effect has a robust effects its cool i gues.
    Prophet currently looking for a new job

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    Anyone have any experience with adding SJW to theanine? *Was it synergistic or antagonistic to mood and energy and OCD prophylaxis?*

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