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  1. #1
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    How crazy would it be to use testosterone gel as a female aphrodisiac? Say a topical application at a dose large enough to boost sexual energy, enjoyment at the very most once a week -like prior to Saturday night sex. Can such an infrequent application cause virilizing effects? And if it does and the lady stops as soon as the first signs materialize, would the little virilization that is caused be reversible? (another question would be where the virilizing effects will likely show up first -if they do... Would it be the voice, the increase in body hair, the facial features...?)
    A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he is not in love with her...
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    Senior Member Ex Dubio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    How crazy would it be to use testosterone gel as a female aphrodisiac? Say a topical application at a dose large enough to boost sexual energy, enjoyment at the very most once a week -like prior to Saturday night sex. Can such an infrequent application cause virilizing effects? And if it does and the lady stops as soon as the first signs materialize, would the little virilization that is caused be reversible? (another question would be where the virilizing effects will likely show up first -if they do... Would it be the voice, the increase in body hair, the facial features...?)


    I know AndroGel has been used clinically for this purpose, but understand the dose is something like 1/10 of the lowest doses men use for testosterone replacement. (Something like 1/5-1/10 of a 2.5mg AndroGel packet, to give you an idea.)



    I haven't read the literature regarding virilizing effects, so you might want to do a little PubMed research, as many of those effects are not reversible, due to being legitimate structural changes to the vocal chords, clitoris, etc. I'd proceed carefully, ideally under the guidance of an experienced endocrinologist or sex specialist.



    Not sure anyone can predict which virilizing effect would occur fist.



    Also understand that if she's not on the pill or if there's any chance she could get pregnant, this is very dangerous territory. Testosterone has no problem passing through the placenta, and it does not do nice things to fetuses.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    P&G's Intrinsa patch releases 300ug/day and is worn continually. I believe they also concluded that there was no acute effect from testosterone treatment and only chronic application of the patch for several weeks produced a significant effect.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    "Testosterone therapy is systemic and needs to be applied over a period of weeks or months to have a noticeable effect."

    " In the placebo group, women had an average increase in satisfying sexual episodes of 0.5 per month, while those with patches had an average increase of 1.9 episodes per month"



    Uhhhhh, I guess this is what happens when you keep the dose so low that you wish to be absolutely certainly and totally certain that there will be no side effects and long-term consequences. You will need to use the stuff for weeks to months and even then have 2 times good sex per months. Of course, these are likely older women and may be having other issues too, but still this is not very impressive.



    What I was wondering is how possible it is to create a quick surge in sexual desire with topical testosterone. What do you think Benson/Ex Dubio? How quickly will the effect materialize if the dose is high but still within reason? And let us keep in mind that the P&G patch aims to treat the problem in a very different manner. Their solution is the "prescribe something to the patient and leave no room for them to use their judgment" kind of approach. What I am talking about is to use testosterone only when the conditions are right,which may be once a week or even less, and thus being able to use a far higher dose. Such an approach opens up the possibility for abuse of course...
    A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he is not in love with her...
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    Senior Member ((Vibe))'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    "Testosterone therapy is systemic and needs to be applied over a period of weeks or months to have a noticeable effect."

    " In the placebo group, women had an average increase in satisfying sexual episodes of 0.5 per month, while those with patches had an average increase of 1.9 episodes per month"



    Uhhhhh, I guess this is what happens when you keep the dose so low that you wish to be absolutely certainly and totally certain that there will be no side effects and long-term consequences. You will need to use the stuff for weeks to months and even then have 2 times good sex per months. Of course, these are likely older women and may be having other issues too, but still this is not very impressive.



    What I was wondering is how possible it is to create a quick surge in sexual desire with topical testosterone. What do you think Benson/Ex Dubio? How quickly will the effect materialize if the dose is high but still within reason? And let us keep in mind that the P&G patch aims to treat the problem in a very different manner. Their solution is the "prescribe something to the patient and leave no room for them to use their judgment" kind of approach. What I am talking about is to use testosterone only when the conditions are right,which may be once a week or even less, and thus being able to use a far higher dose. Such an approach opens up the possibility for abuse of course...


    FWIW, I've read a good deal of anecdote about women having much higher libido on 10-15 mg's of oxandrolone.
    “When mental energy is allowed to follow the line of least resistance and to fall into easy channels, it is called weakness” -James Allen

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Testosterone has very little acute effect on libido or anything else.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    What do you mean Benson?

    First of all you mean "in women", right? For sure in men it does

    Secondly, at what dose does it have little effect on libido? At any dose?

    Finally, what do you mean "...little effect on anything else"? This is testosterone, which effects lots and lots of things....



    In addition, how would it have little effect on libido when the patch by P&G is transdermal testosterone?



    Just really confused here?!?!?



    I understand it is one of multiple factors, but how would it not have an effect on libido?
    A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he is not in love with her...
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    I said it has very little acute effect...chronically, elevated testosterone does all sorts of interesting things to men and women but taken once, in isolation, doesn't really do much at all, particularly having to do with objective or subjective sexual response.





    J Sex Med. 2006 May;3(3):541-9.

    Vaginal application of testosterone: A study on pharmacokinetics and the sexual response in healthy volunteers.

    Apperloo M, Midden M, van der Stege J, Wouda J, Hoek A, Weijmar Schultz W.

    Department of Gynecology, University Hospital Groningen, Groningen, The Netherlands. m.j.a.apperloo@og.umcg.nl

    Abstract



    INTRODUCTION: Androgen substitution is advocated to improve sexual functioning in women with androgen insufficiency. Nevertheless, the role of androgens in female sexual functioning is not yet unraveled. Even less is known about changes in androgens and the female sexual response.



    AIM: The aim of the study is to describe the pharmacokinetics of a single dose of vaginally applied testosterone. In addition, the study aims to gain more insight into the relation between acute changes in testosterone levels and the sexual response in women.



    METHODS: A randomized, double-blind, crossover study design was used to compare a single vaginal dose of testosterone propionate (2 mg) with placebo. Ten healthy premenopausal women participated. Serum levels of testosterone, free testosterone, and estradiol were measured. The sexual response was measured before application of medication and 4 and 8 hours after application. Erotic video fragments and erotic fantasies were used as stimuli. The genital sexual response was measured using vaginal plethysmography. The subjective sexual response was measured using a visual analog scale.



    RESULTS: Vaginal administration of testosterone propionate induced a significant rise in serum testosterone levels and free testosterone levels, but not in serum estradiol levels. Peak levels were reached after 5.5 hours (range 2-12 hours). Mean peak levels of testosterone were 7.71 nmol/L after testosterone propionate and 2.99 nmol/L after placebo (P < 0.005). Mean peak levels of free testosterone were 0.12 nmol/L after testosterone propionate and 0.04 nmol/L after placebo (P < 0.005). Despite marked elevated levels of androgens this study was unable to detect a direct effect on the genital or subjective sexual response.



    CONCLUSIONS: A single dose of vaginally applied testosterone propionate elevates serum levels of testosterone and free testosterone within 6 hours. Nevertheless, this acute rise in androgens has no effects on the female sexual response.



    PMID: 16681480
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    That is a relevant study. More disturbingly:



    "Mean peak levels of testosterone were 7.71 nmol/L after testosterone propionate and 2.99 nmol/L after placebo (P < 0.005). Mean peak levels of free testosterone were 0.12 nmol/L after testosterone propionate and 0.04 nmol/L after placebo (P < 0.005)"



    Those are some serious rises in test. levels. But why no immediae change in sexual response? Men do report an (almost) instant rise in libido after test suspension or test prop. Also doesn't morning wood = elevated morning test = elevated sexual desire? Again, this is in males, but one would expect the basic repsonse to be somewhat similar, or so I's think.



    If not test, what else work instantly for female libido?
    A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he is not in love with her...
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    Senior Member John Barleycorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Uhhhhh, I guess this is what happens when you keep the dose so low that you wish to be absolutely certainly and totally certain that there will be no side effects and long-term consequences. You will need to use the stuff for weeks to months and even then have 2 times good sex per months. Of course, these are likely older women and may be having other issues too, but still this is not very impressive.


    Clearly, and I don't even have to look at your profile, to know that you are not married with children.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Also doesn't morning wood = elevated morning test = elevated sexual desire?


    No, it is not that simple. Men have good and bad libidos all over the "normal" T range and exogenous T or even DHT is no guarantee of improved libido, especially in the acute sense...



    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    If not test, what else work instantly for female libido?




    Answer that question, and you can write your own ticket...
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Senior Member D-termine's Avatar
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    I've always wanted to test this out on girls. All I know is my Test TD makes me a sex crazed maniac the same day I apply it. I used to use it just for weekend fun. It reminds me of what G does to sexual desire.



    But alas, dosing women with Test to make them more sexually explicit seems a little unethical. But I like your style.
    Take care of your body with steadfast fidelity. The soul must see through these eyes alone, and if they are dim, the whole world is clouded. ~Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

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    Quote Originally Posted by D-termine View Post
    I've always wanted to test this out on girls. All I know is my Test TD makes me a sex crazed maniac the same day I apply it. I used to use it just for weekend fun. It reminds me of what G does to sexual desire.



    But alas, dosing women with Test to make them more sexually explicit seems a little unethical. But I like your style.


    Agree it does seem unethical. I like to think if tested on a girlfriend/wife that it isn't though.

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    Senior Member Jinx Me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ((Vibe)) View Post
    FWIW, I've read a good deal of anecdote about women having much higher libido on 10-15 mg's of oxandrolone.


    You can get away with 5 mgs for that effect.
    Kicking ass is my comfort food

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Me View Post
    You can get away with 5 mgs for that effect.


    Will 5mg cause water retention?

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    Senior Member Jinx Me's Avatar
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    Not to my knowledge, but I haven't heard of oxandrolone causing water retention at higher doses either.
    Kicking ass is my comfort food

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Me View Post
    Not to my knowledge, but I haven't heard of oxandrolone causing water retention at higher doses either.


    Sorry, severe lack of sleep made me think that read Oxymetholone when I made the reply.

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    Senior Member John Barleycorn's Avatar
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    There is a rumour that PDE-5 inhibitors do more to women than is commonly believed, which makes it awfully tempting to engage in *cough cough* under the radar testing. For that matter, they do a hell of a lot more to men than is commonly believed, as in impacts upon PE, refractory periods, estrogen levels, and libido. I also suspect that some of the biological half-lives are highly variable, potentially resulting in accumulation.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Ex Dubio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Those are some serious rises in test. levels. But why no immediae change in sexual response? Men do report an (almost) instant rise in libido after test suspension or test prop. Also doesn't morning wood = elevated morning test = elevated sexual desire? Again, this is in males, but one would expect the basic repsonse to be somewhat similar, or so I's think.


    See Benson's comment regarding the link between testosterone and libido; namely, it's really not so simple. Some men may experience rapid, positive effects on libido from testosterone supplementation, but many other men can have levels at 1000 ng/dL and still have no libido. It's probably related to AR sensitivity, AR density in the brain, ER-related effects, and probably dependent on otherwise normal monoamine balance in the hypothalamus/NAc.



    As to why no immediate change? Remember, most steroid drugs have immediate effects via membrane receptor binding and/or secondary pathways as well as their more prominent, longer-term effects, via nuclear receptor binding. It would not surprise me if fairly massive changes in gene expression occurred in women after T supplementation, and these changes (with corresponding protein expression) may take quite a while.



    There may even be mild neurological remodeling that takes place during exogenous T supplementation, and this too may take some time. Remember, steroids have pretty prominent effects all over the body.

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