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  1. #1
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    I was taking Bupropion for awhile but now the honeymoon period is over and I feel nothing from it. I am sleeping less and I feel less jaw tension but that's not enough to keep me on it, I need something to improve my mood dramatically right now. I'm looking to boost dopamine only, because every serotonin agonist increases a bruxism issue to unbearable levels whereas dopamine agonists seem to cure that problem. I wanted to try Pramipexole or Ropinirole or Deprenyl but my doctor wouldn't prescribe any. I might be able to get a prescription for Cabergoline though, and if not I'll get a new doctor. Focalin isn't available where i am and stims like Ritalin, Modofinal, etc. gave me serious insomnia and impotance issues.

    So, the dopamine boost plus lowered prolactin/shorter refractory period of Cabergoline makes this sound like a nice drug.

    Can anyone share their experiences? How does this drug stack up to the others listed? What was the mood boost like? Did you experience multiple orgasms on it?

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    First off selegiline not only acts on DA; it acts on MAO-B also.

    Cabergoline also has high affinity for several 5-HT receptors.

    Any D2/D3 agonist will lower prolactin, so the multi orgasm effect would theoretically be there with them all.

    I've been on cabergoline in the past at .25mg and .5mg a week and now I'm on ropinirole at 4mg/day. The ropinirole is better tolerated for me. The cabergoline really fucked with my emotions. I would even say it induced a bipolar state of mind a couple times. Really made me lash out in anger a few times when it wasn't necessary which caused some problems. I also fractured my foot once from kicking a desk.

    There's also the heart valve issue with the ergots. I have NO IDEA why your doctor would issue caber but not ropi.

    Ropinirole only has noticable effects on D2, D3, and D4.

    I'm in the middle of adapting to the 4mg XL dose. On day 4. You might want to check out my thread.

    The only advantage caber would have it the twice a week dosing instead of TID (unless you get the XL like I did and dose once a day, but it's expensive).

    I say go for the ropinirole.

  3. #3
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delicious Dopamine @ Aug 5 2010, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First off selegiline not only acts on DA; it acts on MAO-B also.</div>

    Well, it acts on DA through MAO-B. And other than PEA, which is probably negligible at baseline, it primarily acts through DA...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Cabergoline also has low affinity for several 5-HT receptors.</div>

    FTFY.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Any D2/D3 agonist will lower prolactin, so the multi orgasm effect would theoretically be there with them all.</div>

    Yup. Almost makes it worth the side effects.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I've been on cabergoline in the past at .25mg and .5mg a week and now I'm on ropinirole at 4mg/day. The ropinirole is better tolerated for me. The cabergoline really fucked with my emotions. I would even say it induced a bipolar state of mind a couple times. Really made me lash out in anger a few times when it wasn't necessary which caused some problems. I also fractured my foot once from kicking a desk.</div>

    These reports are pretty variable. Everyone seems to respond somewhat radically differently to each DA agonist, which likely relates to differing affinities at pre- and post-synaptic DA receptors, DA receptors other than D2, and possibly even effects at other neurotransmitter receptors.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>There's also the heart valve issue with the ergots. I have NO IDEA why your doctor would issue caber but not ropi.</div>

    This is factual, but understand that the heart valve issue is more of a reason not to take cabergoline for years on end. Heart valve issues are very, very rare and have only been reported at much higher doses than would be used here. The heart valve issue is serious -- don't get me wrong -- but trying cabergoline is not going to blow up your heart.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I say go for the ropinirole.</div>

    If possible, it's hard to disagree.

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    Ki values

    Ropinirole:
    D2 - 3.7
    D3 - 2.9
    D4 - 7.8

    Cabergoline:
    D2 - 0.7
    D3 - 1.5
    D4 - 9.0
    5-HT1D - 8.7
    5-HT2A - 6.2
    5-HT2B - 1.2

    That's why I said high affinity for 5-HT.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delicious Dopamine @ Aug 6 2010, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'></div>
    is there anything OTC that reliably increases dopamine / lowers prolactin?
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    Ex-Dubio,

    Do you think a DA agonist would theoretically sinergise with a DARI (albeit weak, as is bupropion)? Basically you are causing the vesicles to release more dopamine via agonism and then allowing them to stay floating around for longer. Is this theory valid?

    For what is worth, cabergoline on its own did nothing for me other than make me nauseous. No noticeable effects on sex performance other than any discerneable placebo effect. Selegiline gives me horrid effects akin to a dopamine-induced hypermania at low levels (I seem to be hypersensitive to it as I registered a dramatic increase in blood pressure after eating corned beef @ 2.5 mgs).
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Physicus007 @ Aug 6 2010, 01:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>is there anything OTC that reliably increases dopamine / lowers prolactin?</div>

    DopaBean contains L-Dopa which would work if the doses were right. Check out the kind made by Solaray.

  9. #9
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonic @ Aug 6 2010, 02:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ex-Dubio,

    Do you think a DA agonist would theoretically sinergise with a DARI (albeit weak, as is bupropion)? Basically you are causing the vesicles to release more dopamine via agonism and then allowing them to stay floating around for longer. Is this theory valid?

    For what is worth, cabergoline on its own did nothing for me other than make me nauseous. No noticeable effects on sex performance other than any discerneable placebo effect. Selegiline gives me horrid effects akin to a dopamine-induced hypermania at low levels (I seem to be hypersensitive to it as I registered a dramatic increase in blood pressure after eating corned beef @ 2.5 mgs).</div>

    Sort of. A few comments.

    -Bupropion is frequently referred to as a DARI, but in humans its affinity for the DA reuptake pump is so small as to be functionally negligible. Bupropion also does not exhibit the same extent of enzymatic degradation in mice as it does in humans, making it appear both more potent and more DAergic in rodents. It's really an NRI with nAChR antagonistic properties.

    -Agonists do not cause the vesicles to release more DA. They activate presynaptic and postsyanptic D2 (or D2/3/4) receptors, thus stimulating the second messenger cascade that results from receptor activation. Postsynaptically, they emulate the effect of endogenous DA, but presynaptically they will reduce DA release and in fact reduce vesicular sequestration, IIRC.

    -A DA agonist MIGHT, however, actually synergize with an NRI -- which bupropion is, more or less -- as increased NEergic tone might well alleviate some of the side effects of the DA agonist. I haven't tested this too thoroughly myself, however, and I've largely been unimpressed with DA agonists.

    -How long did you take cabergoline? Nausea should abate in a week at most at any reasonable dose.

  10. #10
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delicious Dopamine @ Aug 5 2010, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ki values

    Ropinirole:
    D2 - 3.7
    D3 - 2.9
    D4 - 7.8

    Cabergoline:
    D2 - 0.7
    D3 - 1.5
    D4 - 9.0
    5-HT1D - 8.7
    5-HT2A - 6.2
    5-HT2B - 1.2

    That's why I said high affinity for 5-HT.</div>

    I should have been clearer. It has low potency for 5-HT relative to the doses used. Cabergoline is typically used in sub-mg doses for its DA agonist effects, whereas antagonists of the aforementioned 5-HT receptors with comparable affinities tend to be dosed much higher. (e.g. antipsychotics). The only exception might be 5-HT2B, but 5-HT2B has largely proven to have few relevant effects in the brain.

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    Hello M&M, I trialed cabergoline at .5mg every 4 days. (as an experimental supplement to the rest of my regimen: primarily memantine, and amphetamine taken for mood and ADD)

    Not too much concrete to report. Early on I think the effect was slightly calming and positive, and I did notice a reduced refractory period (although not eliminated) and -- this was a nice effect -- much abated post-ejaculation enfeeblement in general. This latter effect persisted ... on the other hand the initial mild mood effects disappeared, and may have given way to what I think was a slight tendency to anhedonia and what definitely seemed like a blunting of amphetamine effects, inasmuch as higher doses were required to achieve stimulation. Interestingly, negative effects that I would receive from these higher doses such as noticeable cardiovascular stimulation, and general mental overstimulation, also seemed blunted. It's just as if 80mg Vyvanse on cabergoline felt like 40mg Vyvanse off, in practically every fashion.

    I've taken this for about four weeks and the initial mood effects faded to the latter blunting at a time I'm not sure of, but I think about halfway through the experiment.

    Oh, another thing is that I think it was a bit easier to sleep these past weeks.

    I believe I will discontinue the cabergoline for now, perhaps to use occasional doses in the future.

    EDIT: I'll also note here again that I've used cabergoline in the past, when I wasn't taking amphetamine, and noticed virtually nothing (not even side effects) even at stupidly high Parkinson's-level doses.
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    Even on the second day, the results were already incredible (once again). While sexual energy is higher, the feeling of urgency is greatly reduced. I no longer dream of marrying every average looking woman I look at. I speak with the confidence. I make eye contact. I am less tempted to try my luck with fat chicks. etc, etc, etc.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ex Dubio @ Aug 6 2010, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sort of. A few comments.

    -Bupropion is frequently referred to as a DARI, but in humans its affinity for the DA reuptake pump is so small as to be functionally negligible. Bupropion also does not exhibit the same extent of enzymatic degradation in mice as it does in humans, making it appear both more potent and more DAergic in rodents. It's really an NRI with nAChR antagonistic properties.

    -Agonists do not cause the vesicles to release more DA. They activate presynaptic and postsyanptic D2 (or D2/3/4) receptors, thus stimulating the second messenger cascade that results from receptor activation. Postsynaptically, they emulate the effect of endogenous DA, but presynaptically they will reduce DA release and in fact reduce vesicular sequestration, IIRC.

    -A DA agonist MIGHT, however, actually synergize with an NRI -- which bupropion is, more or less -- as increased NEergic tone might well alleviate some of the side effects of the DA agonist. I haven't tested this too thoroughly myself, however, and I've largely been unimpressed with DA agonists.

    -How long did you take cabergoline? Nausea should abate in a week at most at any reasonable dose.</div>

    Thanks for the reply. You are correct, I was hungover and as an amateur psychopharmacologist I got myself confused with the terminology.

    Indeed, bupropion is a weak DARI and in my experience, of no use for ADHD. It might have some use for the inattentive type as I certainly believe NE modulation (especially reutake) is a novel approach to this sub-type but in my own case, a self-diagnosed ADHD, it only yielded insomnia and a strange psychotic feeling after a few weeks (compounded with the insomnia). It did however, provide a "get up & go" effect upon taking the instant release version but didn't positively add anything to my concentration. I was simply very agitated and it had some weird cardiovascular effect (apparently common) of increased blood pressure and the heart skipping beats.

    With regards to cabergoline, I only used it twice for seldom occasional events hence the nausea. Its cost and lack of evidence for benefitial ADHD effects is what had me only using it sparingly as an experiment. I was actually much more worried with selegiline as it provided very much negative effects at a dose of 2.5 mgs after a few days. I felt like I was constantly on the come down of a powerful DARI and even reported a dramatic blood pressure increase after eating a can of corned beef and a liter of yoghurt (on repeated occasions).
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    "artiste" graatch's Avatar
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I was actually much more worried with selegiline as it provided very much negative effects at a dose of 2.5 mgs after a few days. I felt like I was constantly on the come down of a powerful DARI and even reported a dramatic blood pressure increase after eating a can of corned beef and a liter of yoghurt (on repeated occasions).</div>

    I've always found it quite stimulating in a nervous, problematic way, moreso than I would expect from just MAO inhibition, although obviously one's range of comparison is limited.

    Besides anything like any effects on tyramine or sympathomimetic metabolism, I have a feeling its interactions with adrenergic receptors (or some other source of an adrenergic effect independent of MAOI -- kinda doubt the very small amounts of (methyl-)amphetamine produced as metabolites cut it though), interactions which it seems are still not fully understood, may be pretty relevant in the effects people get.
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    Even on the second day, the results were already incredible (once again). While sexual energy is higher, the feeling of urgency is greatly reduced. I no longer dream of marrying every average looking woman I look at. I speak with the confidence. I make eye contact. I am less tempted to try my luck with fat chicks. etc, etc, etc.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (graatch @ Aug 7 2010, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've always found it quite stimulating in a nervous, problematic way, moreso than I would expect from just MAO inhibition, although obviously one's range of comparison is limited.

    Besides anything like any effects on tyramine or sympathomimetic metabolism, I have a feeling its interactions with adrenergic receptors (or some other source of an adrenergic effect independent of MAOI -- kinda doubt the very small amounts of (methyl-)amphetamine produced as metabolites cut it though), interactions which it seems are still not fully understood, may be pretty relevant in the effects people get.</div>

    Indeed. Whilst many people report beneficial effects, there are a number of people who report my experience too. I am also confident that many of the reports are from PEA/selegiline vendors.

    For the record I tried it with PEA and only experienced a worsening of effects. It felt like amphetamines for about 5 minutes and then I would have an amplifying of the come-down effect which also yielded ungodly vasoconstriction (I would feel very cold and the veins in my hands and arms would disappear).
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    "artiste" graatch's Avatar
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Indeed. Whilst many people report beneficial effects, there are a number of people who report my experience too. I am also confident that many of the reports are from PEA/selegiline vendors.</div>

    [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>For the record I tried it with PEA and only experienced a worsening of effects. It felt like amphetamines for about 5 minutes and then I would have an amplifying of the come-down effect which also yielded ungodly vasoconstriction (I would feel very cold and the veins in my hands and arms would disappear).</div>

    Similar experiences mate. For whatever that is worth.

    About 5 or 4 minutes of stimulation and then nothing, with rough side effects all alongside. If I wanted to smoke crack ...
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    Even on the second day, the results were already incredible (once again). While sexual energy is higher, the feeling of urgency is greatly reduced. I no longer dream of marrying every average looking woman I look at. I speak with the confidence. I make eye contact. I am less tempted to try my luck with fat chicks. etc, etc, etc.

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    I thought it was already determined that the beneficial effects from DAA's come about after a couple weeks of use. Any patience to use a DAA for a longer period of time, graatch? Maybe even a different one?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delicious Dopamine @ Aug 7 2010, 08:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I thought it was already determined that the beneficial effects from DAA's come about after a couple weeks of use. Any patience to use a DAA for a longer period of time, graatch? Maybe even a different one?</div>

    Having taken them months at time, I can tell you the full effects (at least of the short-acting ones like pramipexole and ropinirole) set in within a week or two. Moreover, graatch took them 4 weeks, which should be plenty.

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    So far, I'm starting to think ropinirole isn't doing much for me, and it's disappointing. But then again, I've only been on the 4mg XL dose for 6 days.

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