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  1. #1
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    I read retinol is what crosses into the testicles and increases testosterone levels. Is that the best form to take?



    What about mixed carotenes?

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    Funny, I've just started looking into this (and have been dosing vit A from fish liver oil (I'm guessing that's retinol) at 20-30,000 IU / day -- which I will taper down soon to avoid toxicity issues).



    AFAIK, one can OD on retinol but not beta-carotene because the body limits its conversion of the carotenes to retinol (reference?). Thus, I would suppose that if retinol is the active, its effects would be more pronounced as compared to carotenes, as conversion may limit the actual amount of retinol.



    I've been wondering if the actions at the testes are related to Vit E's test-boosting properties (as both are fat-soluble antioxidants). I've read that Vit E's effects WRT apparent LH sensitization @ the leydig cells (amplification of effects) may be due to LH receptor stabilization caused by Vit E incorporation into the cell membranes. I wonder if retinol's MOA is similar.



    Some research:



    [Effects of some micronutrients on partial androgen deficiency in the aging male]

    [Article in Chinese]



    He F, Feng L.



    Institute of Nutrition and Food Safety, Zhejiang University, Hangzhou, Zhejiang 310006, China. hefang_xbd@163.com



    With the step-up of the aging process, the increase of old population and the advance of living standard, China has already entered into the aged society. Problems on the health and life quality of the aging male have been receiving more and more attention from scientific researchers. Partial androgen deficiency in the aging male (PADAM) is a kind of syndrome which affects the aging male s health. At present, testosterone supplementation therapy is mostly used to improve the symptoms of PADAM, but it may bring some adverse effects, such as erythrocytosis and hyperplasia and carcinoma of the prostate. Some studies have shown that quite a few nutrients, especially vitamin A, vitamin E, zinc and selenium are favorably related to androgen deficiency and sperm production. This article discussed the effects of micronutrients on PADAM.



    PMID: 16281517 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    Vitamin A and iron supplementation is as efficient as hormonal therapy in constitutionally delayed children.

    Zadik Z, Sinai T, Zung A, Reifen R.



    Pediatric Endocrine Unit, Kaplan Medical Center, Rehovot, Israel. zvivadik@012.net.il



    OBJECTIVE: To assess the effect of nutritional supplementation on growth and puberty in constitutionally delayed children. PATIENTS: One hundred and two boys, 13.6-15.5 years of age, who were referred because of short stature and delayed puberty. METHODS: The boys were randomly allocated to one of the following treatment groups: oxandrolone therapy, 5 mg/day for 6 months (n = 15), testosterone depot, 100 mg monthly for 3 months (n = 15) or for 6 months (n = 20), nutritional programme (n = 17), oxandrolone and nutritional programme (n = 15) or passive observation (n = 20). Boys in the nutritional programmes received 12 mg/day iron and 6000 IU/week of vitamin A. Outcome measurements were of height, weight, pubertal signs, dietary intake, serum vitamin A, iron, GH and IGF-1. RESULTS: Six months of vitamin A supplementation induced growth acceleration similar to that seen in the oxandrolone- and testosterone-treated children, and significantly greater than in the observation group (9.3 +/- 2.9 vs. 4.0 +/- 0.9 crn/yr, P < 0.001). Whereas in the vitamin A-supplemented group, puberty (increase in testicular volume >/= 12 ml) was induced within 12 months. In all testosterone-treated patients, pubic hair was noted within 3 months and a testicular volume of >/= 12 ml was observed 9-12 months after the initiation of therapy. No pubertal signs were noted in the observation group during this time. CONCLUSIONS: Subnormal vitamin A intake is one of the aetiological factors in delayed pubertal maturation. Supplementation of both vitamin A and iron to normal constitutionally delayed children with subnormal vitamin A intake is as efficacious as hormonal therapy in the induction of growth and puberty.



    PMID: 15163330 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]







    The effect of nutritional factors on sex hormone levels in male twins.

    Bishop DT, Meikle AW, Slattery ML, Stringham JD, Ford MH, West DW.



    Department of Medical Informatics, University of Utah, Salt Lake City.



    Dietary intake has been hypothesized as being associated with several hormonally related cancers including prostate, breast, ovarian, and endometrial cancer. Because diet may affect hormones directly, it is logical to examine the effects of dietary factors on hormone production and levels. Therefore, a set of 72 male MZ and 83 male DZ twin pairs was ascertained from the Utah birth certificates. A quantitative food frequency questionnaire was administered and blood samples were drawn for hormonal assays. Heritability estimates for hormonal levels were calculated indicating a range from no heritability for sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), estrone, and testosterone glucuronide to 70% for androstanediol glucuronide and luteinizing hormone. To examine nutritional factors, the difference in hormone and SHBG levels between each MZ twin and his co-twin were correlated with the difference in nutrient intake. Weight and obesity were significantly correlated with plasma testosterone and follicle stimulating hormone. Fat intake showed a significant association with testosterone. Androstanediol glucuronide, a steroid that reflects tissue formation of dihydrotestosterone, was inversely correlated with caloric intake, theobromine and caffeine. Testosterone glucuronide exhibited significant correlations with calories and vitamin A. This study suggests that dietary intake affects plasma sex-steroid levels in men.



    PMID: 3360302 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

  3. #3
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    I remember back when I used to train with the team that the nutritionist on-board would reccomend cod liver oil to lifters in all categories (and I am pretty sure he also did to the rest of sportmen/women). When we would go to the canteen there were tins of cod liver "waiting for the weight lifters".
    "I am a man of few words" - Mayor Adam West

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    Member JornT's Avatar
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    What doses are benefical and which are starting to get toxic?
    PhD(c) Sport Nutrition
    Msc Nutrition Science with top honors

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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashforce' post='495359' date='Jul 28 2008, 06:47 PM
    CONCLUSIONS: Subnormal vitamin A intake is one of the aetiological factors in delayed pubertal maturation. Supplementation of both vitamin A and iron to normal constitutionally delayed children with subnormal vitamin A intake is as efficacious as hormonal therapy in the induction of growth and puberty.



    PMID: 15163330


    Just to be clear, one should not read this particular study as proving that vitamin A and iron supplements have the same effects as AAS in these kids but the other way around: AAS can force changes in growth an maturation that normally require adequate nutritional intake.



    Vitamin A is fat soluble and accumulates in tissue. Acute toxic dose is like 15M IU but a chronic dose of 15-20,000 IU/day can be toxic as well.



    Best to get sufficient beta carotene and let the body convert to active vitamin A as needed.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    Senior Member thecrownedone's Avatar
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    Is there any evidence, Ben, that the conversion of BC to retinol is faulty in some?

    RE: Toxicity - I've read the dose to be 4000 IU/kg every day for 6-15 months (http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/TOPIC638.HTM). Sound about right?

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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecrownedone' post='495814' date='Jul 30 2008, 11:33 AM
    Is there any evidence, Ben, that the conversion of BC to retinol is faulty in some?


    I am not aware of any condition that causes this but I suppose its possible.



    RE: Toxicity - I've read the dose to be 4000 IU/kg every day for 6-15 months (http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/TOPIC638.HTM). Sound about right?
    AFAIK, smaller doses, 150-200 IU/kg over time can be toxic. I've read about arctic explorers dying of acute retinol poisoning after eating as little as a few ounces of polar bear liver.
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    I've been using 50k IU a day for acne. It significantly reduced oil, but it definitely hasn't cured the acne. I may stop soon, as I don't think it is a good idea to stay at that dose for too long.



    Also, that dose has to be split, because anymore than 20k IU at once makes me nauseous.
    $5 off at iherb.com referral code: REV730

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    I was reading the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A today (since I've been using ~40k iu / day for 10 days or so now), and I ran across gynecomastia.



    Why would this happen? Pubmed didn't bring up anything at first look (although there is a "hypervitaminosis D and gynecomastia" title from the 1950s (in Italian), no further info unfortunately.

  10. #10
    Senior Member brobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashforce' post='499295' date='Aug 13 2008, 12:03 PM
    I was reading the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A today (since I've been using ~40k iu / day for 10 days or so now), and I ran across gynecomastia.



    Why would this happen? Pubmed didn't bring up anything at first look (although there is a "hypervitaminosis D and gynecomastia" title from the 1950s (in Italian), no further info unfortunately.


    dashforce, do you have a link to what you were reading? Did they mention the source of A?

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    Just google (C&P)
    "hypervitaminosis A" gynecomastia


    Several hits come up (the first 2 included), many of which are "reputable" medical health sites, but the claims appear to be unreferenced.

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    Senior Member brobot's Avatar
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    Thanks, looked up the search results and came to the same conclusion. No references. I ran into this the other day: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsl...008-june.shtml Scroll down to Dr. Cannell's the response to Jane.

    Vitamin A antagonizes the action of vitamin D. In humans, even the vitamin A in a single serving of liver impairs vitamin D�s rapid intestinal calcium response. Furthermore, the consumption of preformed retinols, even in amounts consumed by many Americans in both multivitamins and cod liver oil appears to be causing low-grade, but widespread, bone toxicity, perhaps through its antagonism of vitamin D. In a recent dietary intake study, Kyungwon et al found high retinol intake completely thwarted vitamin D�s otherwise protective effect on distal colorectal adenoma (6) and they found a clear relationship between vitamin D and vitamin A intakes as the women in the highest quintile of vitamin D intake also ingested almost 10,000 IU of retinols/day. As early as 1933, Hess et al warned about vitamin A consumption, concluding, �as to a requirement of thousands of units of vitamin A daily, the unquestionable answer is that this constitutes therapeutic absurdity, which, happily, will prove to be only a passing fad.


    Now do a search on Vitamin D and gynecomastia

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    Senior Member zuper1's Avatar
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    When I've 1st caught my test,LH/FSH levels low,I went to an endo who asked questions about my lifestyle etc.,told him about my overtraining,low calorie/fat diet etc. and mentioned I was eating a lot of carrots,fishes,red peppers..he told me that high carotene may causing this and got me tested.My Vit A was in the medium/normal and my b-carotene(iirc) in the medium-high/normal.He had noticed,was saying,my hands/fingers are yellow and told me eliminate all the carotene sources from diet especially carrots.He even took photos Before start dropping carotene sources and After lol.





    He was unable to find answers,how the low T if my testes respond to HCH stimulation test and my LH pumping on the LH Relfact test(Gnrh stimulation test) and yet my LH/FSH are low.So his answer was 'the carrots'.



    Haven't done any research on Vit A,carotene etc.only the toxicity issue I know,cause my liver enzymes were elevated,but still are(normal),though I don't eat high 'carotene diet'.So maybe my high protein consumption and/or training/overtraining,(a sport doctor had told me 'one punch In can elevate your liver enzymes..), mess my liver.



    Have anyone get any clues..
    ---I AM NOT AS OTHERS..---

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    If you're referring to me,The doc was wrong ,levels were normal.
    ---I AM NOT AS OTHERS..---

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    Senior Member brobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuper1' post='499632' date='Aug 14 2008, 01:22 PM
    If you're referring to me,The doc was wrong ,values were normal.


    Oxi.

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    Senior Member zuper1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brobot' post='499633' date='Aug 14 2008, 09:25 PM
    Oxi.
    if you mean Όχι then I will say οχιά!



    Otherwise,ELABORATE..retarded.
    ---I AM NOT AS OTHERS..---

  18. #18
    Senior Member brobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuper1' post='499654' date='Aug 14 2008, 02:45 PM
    if you mean Όχι then I will say οχιά!



    Otherwise,ELABORATE..retarded.


    Sorry, but I neither have the time nor the need to install the character set on my PC. It was a quick answer meaning no I was not responding to you. I was posting information to add to my reply to dashforce. There's no need for this pedantic malakia.

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    Senior Member zuper1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brobot' post='499655' date='Aug 14 2008, 10:54 PM
    Sorry, but I neither have the time nor the need to install the character set on my PC. It was a quick answer meaning no I was not responding to you. I was posting information to add to my reply to dashforce. There's no need for this pedantic malakia.
    You must learn fixing your quotes kid.

    Kαι άντε kai,thes na mlseis ellinika vale k agglika parallila einai k alloi edo.

    If you wanna speak Greek,put some English there.There others to understand
    ---I AM NOT AS OTHERS..---

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