supplments for getting cut

**MA$$BUILDER** · July 16th, 2002, 12:38 AM

I know of all the eca stacks like hydroxycut and ripped fuel. But what about cutting gels and other fat burners like; mm4 and beta-3? Do these work or are they a waste? I also know that nothing compares to a great diet and weight/cardio program.

**dawza** · July 16th, 2002, 12:55 AM

If you look around on this page, and in the diet section, you will find a wealth of info and useful feedback. As far as cutting gels go, you have found the home of the best topical fat releaser on the market.

**jb1309** · July 16th, 2002, 01:25 AM

beta-3 is good stuff: There are lots of studies on Octopamine(norsynephrine) and the activation of beta3-adrenoceptors in humans.

**Dante** · July 16th, 2002, 03:01 AM

With regards to topical fat-burners, an article can be found in issue number 3 of the online magazine, via this link ("The Science of Topical Fat Loss):

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/main.html

Feedback thus far, is sparse regarding Beta-3, which is not to say anything against it as it may make a rather nice adjunct to an ECA stack. Sensitizing the Beta-3 receptor may increase Insulin sensitivity, and may exert a partioning effect. There is a thread regarding this, several pages back.

EDIT:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantforum/in...fc44b2aad4861e4

The same can be said for MM4,whose main ingredient is Forskolin (pure objective feedback being rare, but on paper--seems very promising, and may make an excellent adjunt to an ECA stack).

**MA$$BUILDER** · July 16th, 2002, 05:46 AM

Thanks for the info. One more guestion. Eca stacks give me the jitters. So to use an affective fat burner without the jitters i could use beta-3 stacked with lipoderm-y? Or would i still get the jitters?

**Dante** · July 16th, 2002, 06:08 AM

So to use an effective fat burner without the jitters i could use beta-3 stacked with lipoderm-y? Or would i still get the jitters?

Excluding the rare circumstance in which someone finds systemic effects from LipoDerm (jitters, etc), then no, you would fare fine. LipoDerm is delivering the Yohimbine to the Adipose tissue, thus bypassing the bloodstream (as opposed to taking Yohimbine orally), and (selective) Beta-3 agonists do not impact blood-pressure as ECA would.

A possible adjunct to LipoDerm, for those that can not tolerate Ephedrine (or have medical contraindications), could be:

1)Beta-3/Syntrax (Octopamine):600 mgs per day.

2)Caffeine (if tolerable): 600 mgs per day

3)MM4/Syntrax:3-6 caps per day (mainly for the Forskolin, as each cap provides 20 mgs of Forskolin, and Syntrax offers an outstanding deal on a quality extract [considering price, potency, and quality]).

**Par Deus** · July 16th, 2002, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by jb1309' date='Jul 16 2002, 01:25 AM

beta-3 is good stuff: There are lots of studies on Octopamine(norsynephrine) and the activation of beta3-adrenoceptors in humans.

Can you post some of these??

The only study I have seen on octopamine and humans, showed that it did not do much for lipolysis, in vitro. I have seen nothing in vivo.

Even with pharmaceutical beta 3's, I have only seen one study that showed selective beta 3 agonism (blocked beta 2) to increase lipolysis in humans, and it only worked at the highest dosing level.

**jb1309** · July 16th, 2002, 05:28 PM

Par your right all the stuff i was looking at was for rodents and dog etc. not humans.

---

Specific stimulation of adipose tissue adrenergic beta 3 receptors by octopamine

Article in French

Galitzky J, Carpene C, Lafontan M, Berlan M.

INSERM U317, Laboratoire de Pharmacologie Medicale et Clinique, Toulouse, France.

A new subtype of beta-adrenoceptor (beta 3) has been recently characterized in human and rodent genome. This receptor can be stimulated with catecholamines or selective pharmacological beta 3-adrenoceptor agonists and it fulfils similar function of norepinephrine in rodent and dog adipose tissue. Octopamine but not tyramine or phenylethylamine activated lipolysis in dog fat cells as well as BRL 37344 (a beta 3-adrenoceptor agonist) or norepinephrine.

In human fat cells, norepinephrine was lipolytic whereas BRL 37344 or octopamine were without effect.

The lipolytic effect of octopamine did not depend on beta 1-/beta 2-adrenoceptor stimulation since it was not suppressed by beta 1- or beta 2-antagonists. These results suggest that octopamine is a specific endogenous ligand for beta 3-adrenoceptors in mammals.

PMID: 8106131 PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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**virtualcyber** · July 16th, 2002, 05:34 PM

MASSBUILDER

The jitters go away after a while -- but, I have not been able to figure out if that is a good thing ...

**MrQuestion** · July 16th, 2002, 08:47 PM

Try nicotine gum or bromo for that matter, add some caffeine and synephrine ( I get em really cheap at Vitamin World and comes by itself) and short burst refeeds and watch the fat melt off. Of course, assuming you are dieting ( I do very low calories) with weight training.

I have yet to do any cardio, which I will do once I chase after this stupid ass stubborn fat. Damn those love handles, damn them to an incinerating fire.