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    Senior Member hexadec's Avatar
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    Brooklynjuice had some posts on increasing the permeability of the blood brain barrier with quercetin or quinine to allow loperamide (immodium) to manifest the typical feel good effects of other opiods.



    Has anyone here tried this and if so, what were the results? If anyone wants to say ANYTHING at all about the topic, feel free to post post post away.

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    I want to say canada dry.

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    Member braids's Avatar
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    not strictly related to your question,but increasing BBB permeability was torturing my brains for the last 10 days... i'm interested in doing that becouse i'd like that ephedrine to give me some CNS boost.

    does alcohol maybe have a similar effect on increasing BBB permeability? if i hit 100mgs of E while drinking i feel much more CNS stimulation ( preety sure it's CNS and not alcohol-related,it is special) than with even 150mg of E while sober.

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    Senior Member Gahan's Avatar
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    Mannitol increases the permability of the BBB too, I believe.
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    Senior Member hexadec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surplusage' post='364074' date='Sep 28 2006, 03:40 PM

    I want to say canada dry


    I like a nice gin and tonic but the amount of quinine in the stuff isn't significant enough to cause the desired effect.



    It IS enough to make a g&t glow bluish white underneath a blacklight. Try it out peeps, it's purty cool.

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    Otherwise quinacrine or chlor are said to be more effective than quinine and quinine is used as a heroin adulterant.

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    Senior Member GhostfaceKillah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surplusage' post='364094' date='Sep 28 2006, 07:25 PM

    Otherwise quinacrine or chlor are said to be more effective than quinine and quinine is used as a heroin adulterant.
    To increase BBB permeability and give the user a sense of more pure product (thus, used in combination with a second adulterant)? I was under the impression that the acetyl groups in heroin rendered the molecule sufficiently lipophilic to cross the BBB readily.
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    Canada dry contains 20mg/6oz of quinine = 113mg/1l.



    Prescription Quinine Sulfate comes in 260mg tablets and 325mg capsules.



    And cd is owned by 7-Up.





    How much of quinine do you need?

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    Senior Member GhostfaceKillah's Avatar
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    From a quick Pubmed query:



    3Alpha,7alpha-dihydroxy-12-oxo-5beta-cholanate as blood-brain barrier permeator.



    Mikov M, Kevresan S, Kuhajda K, Jakovljevic V, Vasovic V.



    Institute of Pharmacology, Toxicology and Clinical Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Novi Sad, 21000, Serbia and Montenegro.



    The aim of the study was to test the efficacy of 3alpha,7alpha-dihydroxy-12-oxo-5beta-cholanate as a blood-brain barrier (BBB) permeator by examining its effect on quinine uptake into the central nervous system in rats, analgesic action of morphine, and on the sleeping time induced by pentobarbital. The obtained results indicate that sodium 3alpha,7alpha-dihydroxy-12-oxo-5beta-cholanate can be considered as modifier of BBB permeability, as it exhibited a promoting effect in all three tests. In the test of quinine uptake, methyl ester of 3alpha,7alpha-dihydroxy-12-oxo-5beta-cholanoic acid (included in the study for comparison) did not show a promoting effect, which can suggest its specific action.



    PMID: 15215568 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexadec' post='364050' date='Sep 28 2006, 03:33 PM

    Brooklynjuice had some posts on increasing the permeability of the blood brain barrier with quercetin or quinine to allow loperamide (immodium) to manifest the typical feel good effects of other opiods.



    Has anyone here tried this and if so, what were the results? If anyone wants to say ANYTHING at all about the topic, feel free to post post post away.


    I have mad experience with this one, since I love opiates so, so much and the idea of an OTC product that induced those effects was just too good to be true. And it was, unless I fucked up.



    Here is what I did: First tried the Lop (10+ mgs) with Glucophase XR from DS (quercitin is listed as well as q3d and q4d which I can never source and don't know how much of an affect it has in regards to BBB permeabililty.



    The K-R-ALA in the GXR also serves action on insulin and possibly blood glucose levels. This is akin to waking up in the morning with low blood sugar. THAT is when BBB is most up for penetration (wow, that sounds gay).



    Next I tried a combo of the following 15+ Mgs Lopermide, empty stomach first thing in the morning, with GXR, without it but with quercitin. With both quercitin and quinine, I believe two 260mig pills. Never tried Mannitol though I've heard of it and it is a common powder drug cut and it would make sense.



    Keep in mind my opiate tolerance would have made Kurt Cobain stay alive long enough to witness such a thing was possible. 160mgs OC (Oral) AT LEAST for one day, 100 migs hydrodone for a ONE time buzz. 16mg hydromorphone snorted to get where I need to be. 180 mgs morphine to feel ok (morphine sucks unless you mainline it).



    During darker days I snorted 5 bundles of heroin (it was real) and couldn't nod.



    My advice, get real opiates and use the quinine, cimetidine, etc to potentiate them or keep the high. Fuck Immodium. I didn't shit for days.

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    Senior Member trouble's Avatar
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    wtf??



    I did a double take when I saw the title and first post of this thread.



    1. this compound doesn't need to cross the blood brain barrier, in fact its been shown NOT TO do so.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loperamide



    2. It acts via the HPA on the gastrocolic reflex of the colon, reducing spascity. Its action is thru NMDA receptors and bile acid regulation.



    Its action in brain is controversial; possibly via mu-opiate receptors, more likely thru NMDA associated action in the vicinity of mu opiates.



    Ala Salvia divinorium, as a matter of fact.



    *laughing* Such humor on a Friday night, oivey!
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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble' post='364286' date='Sep 29 2006, 07:21 PM

    wtf??



    I did a double take when I saw the title and first post of this thread.



    1. this compound doesn't need to cross the blood brain barrier, in fact its been shown NOT TO do so.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loperamide



    2. It acts via the HPA on the gastrocolic reflex of the colon, reducing spascity. Its action is thru NMDA receptors and bile acid regulation.



    Its action in brain is controversial; possibly via mu-opiate receptors, more likely thru NMDA associated action in the vicinity of mu opiates.



    Ala Salvia divinorium, as a matter of fact.



    *laughing* Such humor on a Friday night, oivey!


    Of course it doesn't need to, nor was it intended to cross the Bcubed. But it was oringinally designed as an analogue of fentanyl. Upon testing it revealed none of the pain killing or traditional opiate effects, EXCEPT for constipation and loose stool. Hence the marketing...



    Some of us crazy bastards found this out, (mainly at www.bluelight.nut - PhreeX, the mad scientist) and found the lack of effects weere due to loperamide not crossing the BBB. Hence the strugle to make it more permeable.



    It never really panned out, not for me. It did work for some, placebo...maybe, but the writing is on the wall. Go check the chemical diagrams of some opiates and then check loperamide. Hmmmm. In theory it's wonderful, in practice well, you know how that goes.



    Plus, during my experimentation I would get a kick out of buying 4 extra size boxes that said ANTI-DIARRHEAL in huge letters. To make it look a "little' better, and I think alot of us do this when buying questionabl items, I would buy some gum and some candles or some shit to take the focus away, along with enough loperamide to back up a herd of elephants. Such humor, on saturday morning 2:20 am. Damn night sweats.



    Now I just go in and buy whatever is I want solo. Don't you judge me walmart girl.

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    Senior Member trouble's Avatar
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    Pfft. I'm no Walmart girl, boyo. I can think of better ways to get your jollies than blocking up the waste pipes. You must be hard up indeed to use an anti spasmodic for chemical entertainment. (giggling as I write this, due to your elephantine comment). The candles and incense must have made it *special*.



    Hmm. Wonder what the deal is with the night sweats. Low estrogen, wonder if a nice little phytoestrogen mix wouldn't help mellow out that irritating symptom. Try aromastat, you hippie, you.
    Look at every path closely and deliberately, then ask this crucial question: Does this path have a heart? If it does, then the path is good. If it doesn't, it is of no use.

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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble' post='364315' date='Sep 30 2006, 12:00 AM

    Pfft. I'm no Walmart girl, boyo. I can think of better ways to get your jollies than blocking up the waste pipes. You must be hard up indeed to use an anti spasmodic for chemical entertainment. (giggling as I write this, due to your elephantine comment). The candles and incense must have made it *special*.



    Hmm. Wonder what the deal is with the night sweats. Low estrogen, wonder if a nice little phytoestrogen mix wouldn't help mellow out that irritating symptom. Try aromastat, you hippie, you.


    If you were a walmart girl I would picture you as a shelf stocker, not a cashier. J/K



    Sure there are better ways to get your jollies but blocking up the waste pipes is only a side effect of opiates, from what I have learned the main effects of euphoria are from binding to the MU-Opiate recepetors IF, and that's a big if, you can get that loose poopy med to pass the BBB.



    I'm not so hard up in that sense, but I like to experiment. And the implications of this having some, if any, truth to it are astounding. Especially if you like opiates (personally I have a love/hate relationship with them). Since it's so widely discussed there most be something to it. Then again they say that about alot of things that have wasted my infinite time.



    Ahhhhh, the night sweats. Yes, the are severe at times and nasty. Thank God I am single now (well, not really but..), I can't imagine some chick sleeping with a water buffalo who snores (note to self: make more money, that'll get em).



    I had a full panel done and asked the doc and the nurse who drew the blood to please check all my hormones (estrogen and estradiol levels, as well as thyroid, LH, etc, etc ,etc.) She wrote it on a napkin when drawing my blood so I ripped it up for her. Told her if she thought I was that stupid she can pick her napkin off the ground herself. Bitch. I even offered to pay out of pocket for all the test BECAUSE I WANT TO SLEEP DRY DAMMIT.



    I got back TSH (low, but within range), but no T3 or T4, no estrogen, or anything else. I was proud that I had natural test levels of 650 ng/ml. All other numbers were perfect (Blood, Cholesterol, etc), infact the doctor told me I was quote "the perfect male specimen". Until he felt my balls and made me cough.



    But I digress, this is a poop med thread, lets get back to the shit, shall we...

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    Senior Member spike77's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mess with my BBB...
    To cut the Gordian knot.

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    Senior Member habit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kLee' post='364643' date='Oct 2 2006, 01:28 AM

    I wouldn't mess with my BBB...


    It gets messed with all the time so to speak, as it's permeability changes throughout the day (blood glucose levels, types of food eaten, etc) regardless of whether you are aware of it or not. I was just "helping it along" a bit in the name of science



    You do have a good point though. Kind of like people (myself included) that purposefully inhibit Cytochrome P-450 to increase plasma levels of different drugs and the like. Our body has certain protective measures and some aren't fully understood (at least to me, but certain aspects of it remain unknown to science....I think, unless I inhibiteded something that curb stomped my brain and makes me believe that). Maybe we (I) shouldn't be messing around with such things indeed. But what fun would that be ?

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    Senior Member spike77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by habit' post='364650' date='Oct 2 2006, 03:10 AM

    It gets messed with all the time so to speak, as it's permeability changes throughout the day (blood glucose levels, types of food eaten, etc) regardless of whether you are aware of it or not. I was just "helping it along" a bit in the name of science



    You do have a good point though. Kind of like people (myself included) that purposefully inhibit Cytochrome P-450 to increase plasma levels of different drugs and the like. Our body has certain protective measures and some aren't fully understood (at least to me, but certain aspects of it remain unknown to science....I think, unless I inhibiteded something that curb stomped my brain and makes me believe that). Maybe we (I) shouldn't be messing around with such things indeed. But what fun would that be ?


    I know hehe!
    To cut the Gordian knot.

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    Senior Member hexadec's Avatar
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    It didn't produce anything mindblowing for me either. I actually felt more from the ground coriander that everyone was talking about a little while back.



    My dose was 16mg loperamide (started with 10, bumped to 16 an hour later) and 750mgs of quercetin. Also, a nice fat bowl after the imodium proceeded to do jack.

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