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  1. #1
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    I've done some reading about GHB alternatives and come across 1,4 Butanediol (BDO, Butylene glycol). It seems to be available from some chemical supply houses and the feedback I've seen says its effects are comperable to GHB/GBL.



    I'm curious to see if anyone's had experiences with the compound? In particular, I'd like to know if anyone has information on effectiveness, toxicity, and legality. It doesn't seem to be federally regulated (like GHB/GBL) as it is a commonly used chemical everyday household items. It seems only a few states have some regulations on the stuff.
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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    If I understand correctly some of it will convert to ghb. It's toxic to the body, whereas ghb is not. I believe people say it's dirtier in experience too, more yucky feeling...

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    Senior Member deekz's Avatar
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    i believe its a pro-cursor, turning into GHB the same way alcohol gets broken down. There have been anecdotal reports that it is quite harmful to the liver and kidneys... however I have yet to see any medical literature stating this.

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    1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it's toxic.

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    Senior Member sabertooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooligan' post='355640' date='Aug 8 2006, 09:13 AM

    1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it's toxic.


    Behav Pharmacol. 2006 May;17(3):239-47. Links

    Discriminative stimulus effects of flumazenil: perceptual masking by baclofen, and lack of substitution with gamma-hydroxybutyrate and its precursors 1,4-butanediol and gamma-butyrolactone.Koek W, Carter LP, Wu H, Coop A, France CP.

    Department of Psychiatry, University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, Texas 78229-3900, USA. koek@uthscsa.edu



    Pigeons trained to discriminate 0.1 mg/kg flumazenil, proposed as an in-vivo model to study interactions with diazepam-insensitive gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)A receptors, were tested with various GABAergic and non-GABAergic compounds. As a result of its pharmacological selectivity, the model was suitable for further examining previously reported flumazenil-like effects of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB). Flumazenil and the GABAA negative modulator Ro 15-4513 produced 82-100% flumazenil-appropriate responding. Diazepam and the direct-acting GABAA agonists muscimol and 4,5,6,7-tetrahydroisoxazolo[5,4-c]pyridine-3-ol (THIP) produced 38-64% flumazenil-appropriate responding. GHB, its precursors 1,4-butanediol (1,4-BD) and gamma-butyrolactone (GBL), and the GABAB agonists baclofen and SKF97541 produced 0-24% flumazenil-appropriate responding. Baclofen shifted the flumazenil dose-response curve to the right and down, possibly involving perceptual masking of the discriminative stimulus effects of flumazenil by agonist activity at GABAB receptors. These masking effects of baclofen were blocked by the GABAB antagonist CGP35348. When CGP35348 was given together with GHB to block its GABAB agonist effects, GHB did not produce flumazenil-appropriate responding. Conceivably, effects of GHB at non-GABAB receptors (e.g. diazepam-sensitive GABAA receptors and GHB receptors) may interfere with the expression of its flumazenil-like discriminative stimulus effects. The asymmetric substitution between GHB and flumazenil is consistent with the hypothesis that the discriminative stimulus effects of GHB consist of several components, not all of which are mimicked by flumazenil.

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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooligan' post='355640' date='Aug 8 2006, 08:13 AM

    1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it's toxic.


    It converts using Alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase. If you're short on these enzymes for one reason or another then yes it could be very nasty.



    I've rekindled an interest in these types of things. I lament for the lost opportunities from the early nineties to sample these wonderful flavors.

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    I've used it with no problems. The only real difference I noticed between it and real GHB, was that at higher doses(4 grams or more) you could become very dizzy feeling, whereas I don't get that from GHB.
    "Loyalty above all else, except Honor"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Foxx' post='355952' date='Aug 9 2006, 11:48 AM

    I've used it with no problems. The only real difference I noticed between it and real GHB, was that at higher doses(4 grams or more) you could become very dizzy feeling, whereas I don't get that from GHB.




    From the reading that I've done (although limited) it seems that it is a pretty good alternative to GHB as it does convert to G, which crosses the BBB. The main concern that I've had was with things such as liver/kidney toxicity of the compound. Some reports seem to claim little/no toxicity while others claim toxicity is extremely high.



    The main reason that I'm looking into it is for an alcohol alternative, but if liver toxicity is comperable to that of good 'ol etOH then I feel that I might as well grab a cold one.



    I'm also curious about the legal aspects to this chem. I've seen it available online, but I'm wondering if distribution is watched in any way. Again, if I run the risk of having the men in black show up at my door its really not worth it IMO.
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    strangely ive never gotten dizzy from bdo but have many times from ghb..wonder why?

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    Senior Member Benson's Avatar
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    So did you manage to bump every ghb/bdo thread here?
    Remember, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...





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    ^^forgive me, im bored and sick and have nothing else to do...lol...plus, this topic has alays interested me as i think these chemicals have always gotten a bad rep..

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    Senior Member kassem23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belfort View Post
    ^^forgive me, im bored and sick and have nothing else to do...lol...plus, this topic has alays interested me as i think these chemicals have always gotten a bad rep..
    GOTTA GET SOME GHB; AMIRITE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belfort View Post
    ^^forgive me, im bored and sick and have nothing else to do...lol...plus, this topic has alays interested me as i think these chemicals have always gotten a bad rep..
    It really does get a bad rep. I would think that 1,4 Butanediol (BDO, Butylene glycol) is toxic though. Makes me so mad they would make things illegal such as the real GHB when it is way better for you than alcohol or the alternatives that are legal. It also helps with narcolepsy (which it is now legal for) but for those of us working out do not get to use it. Lame.

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    Well, it is far easier to OD on GHB and GHB precursers than it is with alcohol. If taking 'a drug' like GHB, they are more likely to mix it with other 'drugs', and this increases risk of death if they hit a knockout dose with the G (which is easy as fuck btw, especially for 'clubbers' who are not educated on G, and just out to have a good time). I think that's mostly why stuff like this gets banned. Then the media jump on it, and it's finished.

    Alcohol is too popular and has been ingrained into our history, so chance of that getting banned is very unlikely.

    But yeah, in terms of long term effects on health, chronic use of alcohol is just pure posion.... But conversely, chronic use of GHB will mess your life up too.

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    (clarified)

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    Where are you?

    Most should be legit, maybe google those companies to see if others have had bad experiences with them.

    Seems a poor choice for just increasing GH though. Sure it'll do that A LOT, but you're not buying something as innocent as candy here. The abuse potential is huge. Far underestimated by a lot of people, especially for those who decide how dangerous these things are.

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    oh man if you are looking at using GBL just to release a little GH and to improve your sleep, then you need to rethink your decision..if anything GBL will hurt your sleep down the road if you continue taking it..most long term users of Gbl have horrid sleep patterns and dont usually feel refreshed lol..GBL is taken to get high, bottom line..

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    (clarified)

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    1,4 BDO is toxic to the body. I used the shit every 3 hours for 2 years straight. It's a fucking horrible chemical and I don't care how "strong or strict" you think you are, you will most likely end up addicted to it. When that happens you need to know that 1,4 BDO is harder to kick than GHB or GBL, so it's going to be hell for you and it will take years, not days, weeks, or months - YEARS to get your GABA system back to normal if it even happens at all.. Stay the fuck away from it if you have any damn sense..
    Werd...

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