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  1. #1
    Senior Member Jinx Me's Avatar
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    Any opinions on whether these are worth adding to my fairly extensive supplement regimen, to enhance CNS + muscle recovery?
    Kicking ass is my comfort food

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    Senior Member Max32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx Me' post='306576' date='Feb 16 2006, 08:33 AM

    Any opinions on whether these are worth adding to my fairly extensive supplement regimen, to enhance CNS and muscle recovery?


    For me, absolutely! I will always take a morning and late afternoon cocktail of alcar/tyrosine/choline/glucuranalactone/caffeine/taurine.



    The taurine is CHEAP and great all around. For me, the biggest benefits are in preventing muscle cramps and lowering my blood pressure. FYI, I take around 6-7 grams tyr a day and 10 grams taurine.
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    Senior Member Kimbo's Avatar
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    Taurine is a good cell volumizer and helps mitigate some of the negative effects of stims. I think it's a great all around supplement to include, and it's cheap, so I'd definitely say yes.



    Tyrosine is a good adjunct to most fat burners that contain stims. Should help you avoid adrenal fatigue/burnout.


    If someone says something about you, and it really bothers you, it's probably because it's true.

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    Senior Member Dio's Avatar
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    Taurine is great stuff and you really don't need to use that much of it to see results. 2 grams 2x day is great for volumization, especially when used in tandem with creatine. However, I don't really think that I've seen much in the way of it adding to my recovery.



    Never bothered to use tyrosine on a regular basis, cuz of something Lyle wrote a few years ago. I actually forget what it was, but it made sense to me at the time.
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    Yep.

    All the points have been covered,they're definitely worthwhile.Especially if you use stimulants.



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    Senior Member Dante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dio' post='306591' date='Feb 16 2006, 09:55 AM

    Never bothered to use tyrosine on a regular basis, cuz of something Lyle wrote a few years ago. I actually forget what it was, but it made sense to me at the time.




    Excess dopamine production and neurotoxicity (or was it Parkinson's)? I remember you mentioning this to me (thank you, Tyrosine!).



    Sounded like crap to me, and still does. Perhaps if you were going crazy with it - some instrinsic property of tyrosine before conversion. Even so, for the sake of argument, general use on an as-needed basis would be a different story.



    When I was lean in the single digits, tyrosine made a world of difference as far as psychological health, motivation and physical strength.



    I still find it useful when I'm depressed or simply taxed.

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    Senior Member Jinx Me's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback - I've started taurine but I think my dose is too high - so I'll aim for about 5 grams a day, split into two doses. I don't take many stims, other than drinking coffee and green tea, but I do have some concerns about thyroid health (hereditary issues), so I'd like to err on the side of caution. I'm fairly sensitive to caffeine. Plus, I might up my stims just a tad when I start cutting seriously. I figured the taurine and tyrosine could both be helpful for that phase, for thyroid support and mental focus... but then I used to think glutamine was the shiz, so I figured maybe I'd double check about other aminos...
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    Senior Member sword-'s Avatar
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    You want to improve the effects of both them I suggest you add ALCAR (1.5 - 2 grams) your tyrosine and taurine.



    Old stack of mine:



    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...topic=20398&hl=
    Rebuild.

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    Senior Member Jinx Me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sword-' post='306652' date='Feb 16 2006, 01:45 PM

    You want to improve the effects of both them I suggest you add ALCAR (1.5 - 2 grams) your tyrosine and taurine.



    Old stack of mine:



    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.p...topic=20398&hl=


    Thanks - I was thinking about it actually, you read my mind!
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    Senior Member Dio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante' post='306608 View Post
    Never bothered to use tyrosine on a regular basis, cuz of something Lyle wrote a few years ago. I actually forget what it was, but it made sense to me at the time.




    Excess dopamine production and neurotoxicity (or was it Parkinson's)? I remember you mentioning this to me (thank you, Tyrosine!).



    Sounded like crap to me, and still does. Perhaps if you were going crazy with it - some instrinsic property of tyrosine before conversion. Even so, for the sake of argument, general use on an as-needed basis would be a different story.



    When I was lean in the single digits, tyrosine made a world of difference as far as psychological health, motivation and physical strength.



    I still find it useful when I'm depressed or simply taxed.

    [/quote]





    I know we talked about that, so I was less concerned because I think you pointed out that there was a rate limiting step that was protective. But after that, I thought there was a level of diminishing returns where consistent use of tyrosine made one gradually immune to the effects or at least required ever higher levels to get the same results.



    So does it actually help with CNS recovery or is it more of a mood thing?
    Words are hypnotic

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    Senior Member Kimbo's Avatar
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    Since tyrosine is a precursor to E and NE, I would think it would be useful, particularly when using some sort of stim, to avoid a tyrosine deficiency.


    If someone says something about you, and it really bothers you, it's probably because it's true.

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    Senior Member Dante's Avatar
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    Paul, I don't know what would happen in total as far as that goes. Someone who's not going to pull a rabbit out of their ass should speak up on that one.



    Now, if you're severely stressed out, dieting - burning yourself at both ends either way- then you'd assume that tyrosine would be at least one factor working toward recovery. It's not as though tyrosine is going to enhance mood without impacting your system - but I haven't a clue if the benefits in a severe state are simply acute in contrast to a chronic overload. I seem to recover faster in general (not only when lifting) when I use tyrosine, but considering my neurochemistry, it makes sense as my brain is trigger happy and shoots even when there isn't a target in sight; I run out of bullets and burn out quickly.



    It's not amphetamine - any noticeable benefits initially received should be considered your body's response to a (relative) deficiency. Beyond that there's no reason to continually up the dose in hopes of a noticeable effect, it's not going to happen.



    Considering my history, I like it as insurance once the subjective effects wear off. I tend to think anyone on a diet should consider it, especially as you reach your set point and begin your decent.

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    Senior Member Dio's Avatar
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    I appreciate you sticking to what you can back up, but from what I recall of our discussions our systems are relatively similar, with exception of you having more digestive issues than me. (though I have my own)



    WRT the CNS effects: are you saying that you believe they continue in the sense that your not wiped out,but don't really feel anything specific? Or something else?



    I'm not overly concerned about mood enhancement, but would look into something that would aid with CNS recovery, since my system seems to overtaxed from both working out and general stress. I'm more interested in a longer term solution, though -- which is why I'm concerned with diminishing effects over time.
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    Senior Member trouble's Avatar
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    Tyrosine is necessary for the production of thyroxine and has its use for thyroid support in hypothyroid patients, and of course, its in the pathway for biosynthesis of three neurotransmitters (epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine).



    Excess use should be avoided. Overstimulation, restlessness, anxiety, insomnia, heart palpitations or arrhythmia are side effects that occur from high doses of tyrosine. These can occur in sensitive individuals in as low a dose as 200 mg.
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    Senior Member Dante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble' post='306784' date='Feb 16 2006, 05:13 PM

    Excess use should be avoided. Overstimulation, restlessness, anxiety, insomnia, heart palpitations or arrhythmia are side effects that occur from high doses of tyrosine. These can occur in sensitive individuals in as low a dose as 200 mg.


    I certainly wouldn't recommend multi-gram dosings (as I use), for someone who's never used it. I've become extremely agitated with a combination of high dose tyrosine and EC, and the like.



    DLPA, on the other hand, is more of an anxiogenic for me even at lower doses.



    WRT the CNS effects: are you saying that you believe they continue in the sense that your not wiped out,but don't really feel anything specific? Or something else?


    Yes, basically. But again I don't claim to know (i.e. in an extreme state of stress and chronic overload).



    Reminds me of what Section 8 mentioned regarding fish oil and anxiety: Many of the positive effects could be attributed to correcting a deficiency - which was to say, that everyone who's experiencing anxiety or depression may not necessarily benefit from fish oil if it's used for that purpose. And for those who do, eventually you notice that you're no longer as prone to fits of anxiety or depression - but only in hindsight, not in some present state of euphoria.



    So the overall benefit would remain, although you wouldn't experience the initial high. But that's my experience. It goes with many supplements: Something that can help you in the long run produces an almost immediate benefit. Eventually you don't notice the effects because you're system is no longer as fucked up.



    I am rather fond of rhodiola and (good) korean ginseng for stress and anxiety. I'm interested in long term solutions, too - but, I find that a temporary aid often prevents that road from becoming too distant. And if chronic stress and overload is the problem, then anything that can act as a dam is part of a long term solution.



    Most of this is relevant to dieters, not to hijack the thread. Dieting sucks, and it hurts.

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    Taurine is usefull. doses of up to 1g/10kg bw are what I encourage



    Tyrosine - chronic use causes habituation of one of the enzymes in the chain - I believe it was downregulation of tyrosine hydroxylase or maybe downregulation of pyrdoxine carboxilaze



    I understand that stims like addreeal or ritalin upregulate T hydroxylaze so Tyrosine may be benficial with them, although I've heard also that they downregualte that enzyme on some condition (probably acute vs chronic use, COMT phenotype etc )



    mow, according to this conjuncture

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum//...T&f=12&t=11118



    tyrosine is more suefull to older individuals.

    so - tyrosine is usefull for instance as an acute kick in the nads if you are young and stim realted amino depletion and for dopamine/NE and when old
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    Senior Member Jinx Me's Avatar
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    thanks again for the feedback - and no worries about hijacking - it's all relevant and educational



    i'm finding taurine is having some err, 'ill effects' on my digestion. hopefully this too shall pass, pardon the pun
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    Senior Member Dio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante' post='306809 View Post
    thanks again for the feedback - and no worries about hijacking - it's all relevant and educational



    i'm finding taurine is having some err, 'ill effects' on my digestion. hopefully this too shall pass, pardon the pun


    You're using too much then, or combining it with too many other "volumizers." Try does of 1-2 grams and increase the amount of water intake when dosing. Also, you are correct that it will get much easier on your system after a few days.
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    Senior Member Jay Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liorrh' post='307015' date='Feb 17 2006, 08:26 AM

    Taurine is usefull. doses of up to 1g/10kg bw are what I encourage




    Holy smokes, that's like 10g a day for most of us. I'm only taking 3-4g currently. What benefit would that dose give over the "reccomended" doses (as per the article at BN)?
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    that is what I've seen the best benefits with ancedotally with active, stim using/ abusing, anxious/tense/wired population like this board.

    I've conversed about it with Tolson in an email once( he wrote that aforementioned article) and he said he doesn;t think even 1.5g/10kg (15 gram for me) wold couse beta alanine deficiency or the like.



    ofcourse tweaking is individual.
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