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  1. #1
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    Well it looks like I might be the first dumb @ss that got addicted to phenibut. My job of 7 years closed shop 6 months ago, and I been using phenibut pretty heavy since then. For awhile dosing every few hours. I quit three months in, pretty much cold turkey and had three days of hardly any sleep. So I then took it just for sleep for awhile and was sleeping good, but feeling grogy in the morning. I then started up again to about 1200mg in the morning and then in the afternoon and then 2400 for bed. Well I decided to quit and started to taper. I was using 2400mg for sleep and that was it. Even cut it to about 1800mg. When I went down to zero I slept for an hour and then was wide awake. I got up took 2400mg and got some sleep. The next morining I went to the doctor complaining of insomnia hoping to get something to help ween me off the phen. I remeber people addicted to GBL saying that valium and other benzos are need to come off. Well the doc gave me temazepam which is a benzo. Well when looking up info on temazepham, withdrawal symptoms are anxiety, sleeplessness, panic attacks, loss of appetite, nausea, the withdrawals I was getting from the continued use of phenibut.



    So am I just trading one benzo for another? This makes me think that I just might have to tough out the withdrawal symptoms. Does anyone think the temazepam will help? I took 15mg last night and didn't sleep well at all. That makes me think that maybe it is a little less potent and helping me ween off? Hell I don't know. I plan on taking temazepam 2 more nights and then taking it from there. If it gets too bad I'll go back to the doc and ask for help. Does anyone here have any experience with benzo withdrawals?

    Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Member Par Deus's Avatar
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    I used phenibut 3-4 times per day, at 500-1000mg per dose, for about 7-10 days, when I was quitting weed and 40's



    Worked very well for that, but when, I went to cut out the phenibut (cold), I averaged about 3 hours of sleep for a week, before I finally went back close to normal. Even with pot, I could not sleep during this period.



    I really think this chemical is not to be taken lightly.


    Right-Wing Terrorist Bot 2.010

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    I raised this concern about its addictive qualities back in may when everybody was hyping the substance:



    "BUT IS IT ADDICTIVE?



    Just curious, something that makes you feel so good.... Can it be safe to use over the long-term? I wonder. My own experience with substances that substantially and positively alter my consciousness is that I rather quickly become dependent on them and they take control of my life. But that's me.



    I would be interested on some honest feedback over the long-term of this substance and also wonder if anyone has done any research on its long-term addictive risks.



    I suspect that any euphoria inducing substance such as this will rather rapidly deplete the brain's repository of pleasure-causing chemicals (requiring an increased dosage to get the same effect) followed in the case of chronic use with receptor down-regulation.



    I remember when GBL was readily available and was being touted as a euphoria-inducing, sleep improving, gh releasing wonder supplement. I was addicted within a week and spent over a month painfully kicking the stuff. "



    Also remember you "appeared" to downplay that concern in your response:



    Posted: May 14 2004, 02:33 PM







    Anything that is fun is fun because it hits reward and reinforcement pathways.



    Anything that hits these is potentially addiciting, physiologically and psycologically.



    Since I have been using Phenibut, I actually wake up feeling better -- but I have also had (for me) moderate consumption of alcohol most of the days i have used it, and the day after i drink, if I don't have a hangover, I am really happy and my mind at ease (intead of having 5 inner monologues going at all times), plus I have been smoking a lot less grass, so too many variables to say based on my experience.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Par Deus's Avatar
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    How exactly is that downplaying it??



    I said it is potentially addicting, both physiologically and psychologically. And, it is.



    I also said there were too many variables to make any real determinations, and there were.



    Did you want me to lie and say it will make you go blind -- or it is too good to ever try it??



    Perhaps it is just that you are not familiar with the board, and you have acertain impression of the members of a bodybuilding board, but neither myself, nor a good number of the members (especially those reading the CC forum) are bubblegummers.



    I'm not gonna sit there and compare it to cocaine.


    Right-Wing Terrorist Bot 2.010

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    Quote Originally Posted by raz888' date='Jul 16 2004, 02:36 PM
    Well it looks like I might be the first dumb @ss that got addicted to phenibut.* My job of 7 years closed shop 6 months ago, and I been using phenibut pretty heavy since then.* For awhile dosing every few hours.* I quit three months in, pretty much cold turkey and had three days of hardly any sleep.* So I then took it just for sleep for awhile and was sleeping good, but feeling grogy in the morning.* I then started up again to about 1200mg in the morning and then in the afternoon and then 2400 for bed.* Well I decided to quit and started to taper.* I was using 2400mg for sleep and that was it.* Even cut it to about 1800mg.* When I went down to zero I slept for an hour and then was wide awake.* I got up took 2400mg and got some sleep.* The next morining I went to the doctor complaining of insomnia hoping to get something to help ween me off the phen.* I remeber people addicted to GBL saying that valium and other benzos are need to come off.* Well the doc gave me temazepam which is a benzo.* Well when looking up info on temazepham, withdrawal symptoms are anxiety, sleeplessness, panic attacks, loss of appetite, nausea, the withdrawals I was getting from the continued use of phenibut.*



    So am I just trading one benzo for another?* This makes me think that I just might have to tough out the withdrawal symptoms.* Does anyone think the temazepam will help?* I took 15mg last night and didn't sleep well at all.* That makes me think that maybe it is a little less potent and helping me ween off?* Hell I don't know.* I plan on taking temazepam 2 more nights and then taking it from there.* If it gets too bad I'll go back to the doc and ask for help.* Does anyone here have any experience with benzo withdrawals?

    Any advice would be appreciated.* Thanks
    I been using 60-70mg of Valium/day - along with 60mg of Temazepam (the benzo used by the military due to its lack of hangover side effects and its extremely LOW "addiction potential") - for over 4 years continuously.



    Phenibut, is not related to benzodiazepines like temaz (Restoril) and Xanax, Valium etc...



    "I remeber people addicted to GBL saying that valium and other benzos are need to come off. (They are not "needed" to come off, but can help a bit) Well the doc gave me temazepam which is a benzo. Well when looking up info on temazepham, withdrawal symptoms are anxiety, sleeplessness, panic attacks, loss of appetite, nausea, the withdrawals I was getting from the continued use of phenibut" <--- The benzo withdrawals that characterize this class of meds are mostly coincidental...



    Temazepam is one of the safest and least likely to result in physical dependency symptoms, unlike Xanax for example --> which can lead to seizures etc..



    I have gone thru almost fatal benzo withdrawal due to medical negligence...However, that was after using 100mg/day of Valium along with 30mg/day of Xanax (all Dr. prescribed btw...)



    You have very little to worry about IMHO, but I can send you some linx etc...
    ".. I imagine him (Ergoman) as either some neo monk who has such a perfect balance with his body that he notices even the slightest difference from something..."..."Or he's a sup company rep with the worst computer skills I've ever seen... maybe he's playing dumb to trick us..."-Supnut

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    "So am I just trading one benzo for another? This makes me think that I just might have to tough out the withdrawal symptoms. Does anyone think the temazepam will help? I took 15mg last night and didn't sleep well at all. That makes me think that maybe it is a little less potent and helping me ween off? Hell I don't know. I plan on taking temazepam 2 more nights and then taking it from there. If it gets too bad I'll go back to the doc and ask for help."



    I would definitely talk to your Doctor. Good thing with temazepam, is that it really "begins" to start working after ~2-3 days of use. Usually works best taken 1-2 hours before sleep. As you can see below, melatonin is used along with Ambien, Sonata, and Temazepam...



    Aviat Space Environ Med. 2004 Jun;75(6):512-9. Related Articles, Links



    Sleep-inducing pharmaceuticals: a comparison of melatonin, zaleplon, zopiclone, and temazepam.



    Paul MA, Gray G, MacLellan M, Pigeau RA.



    Defence Research and Development Canada Toronto, North York, Ontario, Canada. mpaul@drdc-rddc.gc.ca



    INTRODUCTION: Current military operations often require pharmaceutical methods to sustain alertness and facilitate sleep in order to maintain operational readiness. This study was designed to compare the sleep-inducing power of four medications. METHOD: There were 9 men and 14 women, ages 21-53 yr, who were assessed for psychomotor performance before and for 7 h after ingestion of a single dose of placebo, zaleplon 10 mg, zopiclone 7.5 mg, temazepam 15 mg, or time-released melatonin 6 mg. The experimental design was a double-blind crossover with counterbalanced treatment order. Subjects wore polysomnographic electrodes to record total sleep and sleep latency during 4-min periods with eyes closed immediately before and after each psychomotor test sequence. Subjective drowsiness was assessed by questionnaire. RESULTS: There were drug x trials interactions for zaleplon, zopiclone, and temazepam for total sleep, sleep latency, and subjective drowsiness. More sleep, shorter sleep latency, and more drowsiness occurred immediately after psychomotor testing compared to before testing for all medications. Melatonin did not cause any sleep prior to psychomotor testing sessions, but caused sleep and reduced sleep latency after psychomotor test sessions from 1 3/4 h to 4 3/4 h post-ingestion. CONCLUSIONS: The sleep-inducing power of the medications before psychomotor testing was zopiclone > zaleplon > melatonin > temazepam. The corresponding effect after psychomotor testing was zopiclone > melatonin > zaleplon > temazepam.



    PMID: 15198277 [PubMed - in process]
    ".. I imagine him (Ergoman) as either some neo monk who has such a perfect balance with his body that he notices even the slightest difference from something..."..."Or he's a sup company rep with the worst computer skills I've ever seen... maybe he's playing dumb to trick us..."-Supnut

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    Thanks for all the great info ergoman. I guess I'll just take the temazepam and hope for the best. I tossed and turned pretty much all night yesrterday, but hopefully it will work better with time like you said. All the literature that I've read say not to take temazepam for more than seven days in a row. So hopefully I'll be okay by then.

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    the unknown is always so scary....research a little (even if it's on here like you are doing). It may be that you are overreacting due to not knowing what is happening to you. You may also be stressed due to long term employment suddenly dissipating and using Phenibut, although helping through a tough time, never allowed you to face this harsh reality.



    Hope that all goes well for you. Keep us posted.

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    Senior Member eclypz's Avatar
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    I feel your pain man. I took phenibut regularly at night for about a month. I ran out and quit cold turkey and was an anxious mess for several days afterward. Keep your head up...

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    have you tried melatonin 1g to up to 6grams. I use 6 grams of melatonin and a a ECA stack doesnt stand a chance. It cheao as hell so if it adds a few hours to your sleep might be worth it. Also it is a great antioxidant for the brain.
    "Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless." - Bruce Lee

    "Note the emphasis on slight and initially, which is different than huge and forever." - MD

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    Sure hope you meant MILLIgrams.



    Lemme tell ya, 3-6mg of melatonin and 200mg of valerian root KNOCK MY ASS OUT. This is saying a lot, as I seem to have a high tolerance to most things.

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    The first time I quit, I tried everything. 5-htp, valerian root, benedryl, melatonin, and nothing worked. I'd sleep maybe 2-3 hours and then be wide awake for pretty much the rest of the night.

    Now with the temazepam that I got from the doc, I'm getting through the night but waking up maybe 3-5 times. I can't get into a really deep sleep yet. It's been three nights so far so hopefully I'll start to see some improvement within the next few days. Thanks alot for everyone's responses. Its good to hear that some others have gone through smiliar times.



    "Phenibut, although helping through a tough time, never allowed you to face this harsh reality."



    This is exactly what happened. I've been pretty much in a fog the past six months. Although I don't feel all that great right now, my mind is definetly clearer, and that feels good.

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    I would talk to your Physician again. Depending on how big you are, 15mg of the generic Temazepam is not considered a "high dose"- when it comes to inducing sleep. Even elderly patients have commonly been given the 30mg capsules w/o any problems...



    Often 30mg capsules of the Mylan generic ($15/month at the local pharmacy) Temazepam is all that is needed to help you sleep thru the nite. Or perhaps request a script for a 7-10 day supply of Ambien or plain old Valium/Ativan/Klonopin etc... to use --> in case the Temazepam doesnt do the job.



    I would definitely not use any of them more than 10 days in a row --> considering your specific situation...



    Best wishes, and hang in there...
    ".. I imagine him (Ergoman) as either some neo monk who has such a perfect balance with his body that he notices even the slightest difference from something..."..."Or he's a sup company rep with the worst computer skills I've ever seen... maybe he's playing dumb to trick us..."-Supnut

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